IRI - Dates, Info and Rule Ideas

[Chi Meson]

Respectfully submitted; re : Moneyball

I'm in favor of one ball for each side, to be deployed only during endgame.

There is already too much "luck" floating around to have the "jump ball"; even with best effort, everybody tends to throw right or left.

And this game does not need to reward "more points" with "more points," nor does it need to provide a chance for "catchup points" for the alliance that's behind. The money ball should (I think) be another way for each team to score, fairly and equipotentially.

[Nawaid Ladak]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

EDIT:

I was also thinking, it would be interesting to set up an additional field, or at least half of one. Set up a series of basketballs on one or two bridges and all over the court in certain places. You put one robot on the field on the key with a basketball and have it try to pick up and shoot as many of the basketballs as it can within, say, 30 seconds. Enforce a 1 Basketball hold limit, give additional points for ending the 30 seconds on the bridge and maybe something with a Moneyball. Teams can attempt the challenge only 3 times during the day, and the team who scored the most points within that 30 seconds earns a special award. Basically, the 3-point shooting contest the NBA does, in FIRST terms.

...Or Like the VRC Skills Challenge

On that note, there should be an autonomous variant to this as well. Same thing, but either totally atonomous or kinect aided... Sort of like the VRC Programming Skills Challenge

[Arefin Bari]

I just booked our flights, hotel and car for IRI. I sure hope dates don't change. I am so excited to be able to go back after 3 long years!

[Michael Hill]

Just a request: don't introduce brand new balls in the elimination round. Rotate the balls throughout the competition so they all have equal wear. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, but we have a feeling new balls being put in play during eliminations causes some pretty wild shooting because they're more stiff and less consistent than worn balls.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Michael Hill

Just a request: don't introduce brand new balls in the elimination round. Rotate the balls throughout the competition so they all have equal wear. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, but we have a feeling new balls being put in play during eliminations causes some pretty wild shooting because they're more stiff and less consistent than worn balls.

But that's part of the challenge and cheats teams who have figured out how to deal with the inconsistencies.

No reason to make IRI easier.

[Duke461]

Just a request: don't introduce brand new balls in the elimination round. Rotate the balls throughout the competition so they all have equal wear. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining, but we have a feeling new balls being put in play during eliminations causes some pretty wild shooting because they're more stiff and less consistent than worn balls.

Originally Posted by IndySam

But that's part of the challenge and cheats teams who have figured out how to deal with the inconsistencies.

No reason to make IRI easier.

There's an easy fix to this. I saw the driver on 836 at washington, D.C. do this before every match. He would take the two basketballs, that were to be pre-loaded, set it on the ground while holding it with both hands, and used his knee as a "pogo stick", jumping around, squishing and compressing the basketball with his knee. It seemed to work pretty well, they made nearly every auton shot and were finalists. Now for the rest of the basketballs in teleop? Well, either convince the other five alliances to do the same, or add some pneumatic "drum" to your robot to squish them down a bit.

-Duke

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by Duke461

There's an easy fix to this. I saw the driver on 836 at washington, D.C. do this before every match. He would take the two basketballs, that were to be pre-loaded, set it on the ground while holding it with both hands, and used his knee as a "pogo stick", jumping around, squishing and compressing the basketball with his knee. It seemed to work pretty well, they made nearly every auton shot and were finalists. Now for the rest of the basketballs in teleop? Well, either convince the other five alliances to do the same, or add some pneumatic "drum" to your robot to squish them down a bit.

-Duke

I tried that in Oklahoma and simply received a stern talking to by one of the refs and almost kicked off the field... I recall seeing a video on CD of a student doing that and the ref standing in close proximity not caring. Is there a specific rule that frowns upon this action?

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by CalTran

I tried that in Oklahoma and simply received a stern talking to by one of the refs and almost kicked off the field... I recall seeing a video on CD of a student doing that and the ref standing in close proximity not caring. Is there a specific rule that frowns upon this action?

As far as I know, no there is not. However, I am a little fuzzier on the rules that were never an issue at competitions I reffed, and no one ever tried anything like this at those competitions. But I could see how this would be frowned upon, something like modifying the field elements before a match.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by CalTran

I tried that in Oklahoma and simply received a stern talking to by one of the refs and almost kicked off the field... I recall seeing a video on CD of a student doing that and the ref standing in close proximity not caring. Is there a specific rule that frowns upon this action?

Originally Posted by P.J.

As far as I know, no there is not. However, I am a little fuzzier on the rules that were never an issue at competitions I reffed, and no one ever tried anything like this at those competitions. But I could see how this would be frowned upon, something like modifying the field elements before a match.

I could see someone construing that as damaging the field, especially if you were really going at it.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Billfred

I could see someone construing that as damaging the field, especially if you were really going at it.

Then most all robots damage the field and should be penalized every match, because they put far more abuse on the balls during the course of a match than a human knee does before it. All the kneading does is help break open the pores of a brand-new ball to allow better breathability and more "squishiness".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxsalSrmCto

We call it "breaking the seal". It isn't a cure-all, but it helps.

Back to IRI rule change ideas?

[George Nishimura]

I skimmed through this thread, here are some ideas I second and bring to the table.

1) No driving on alliance bridges before last 30 seconds.

2) Co-opertition worth 1 qualifying point/tie-breaker

3) Allow triple balancing in qualifications, maybe bring points down to 30.

4) Double [or +3] basket points in the last 30 seconds [for both robot and player]

5) No maximum ball penalty in hybrid

[efoote868]

The three rules I'd like to see that wouldn't modify the scoring:

1. The other alliance's bridges are only protected during the last 30 seconds of the match.
No 9 point penalties, allows you to go after their balls for more offense. Also makes a 3 robot balance more difficult because it needs to be done in 30 seconds.

2. The other alliance's alley is not off limits in the last 30 seconds of the match.
This would effectively allow a team to shoot their way out of a triple balance. It would also allow some defense before the bridge, making harassing the other team and defending a triple balance easier.

3. The other alliance's key is not protected during the first 30 seconds nor the last 30 seconds of the match.
Another shift in strategy. Would allow a robot to drive to the other side of the field and harass the opposing alliance in autonomous mode, and would be a difficult programming challenge.
Would also allow defense virtually anywhere during the last 30 seconds.

[Michael Hill]

Originally Posted by IndySam

But that's part of the challenge and cheats teams who have figured out how to deal with the inconsistencies.

No reason to make IRI easier.

IRI isn't supposed to make the game harder (that's why we relax rules in the first place there). A lot of it is about seeing great robots getting high scores, especially in elims.

[Michael Hill]

As a separate request, to have a little nostalgia...

BUMPERS. OPTIONAL.

[JohnFogarty]

I'm bringing in the FTC "Get Over It" idea from the game where the balance bridges came from.

1. Extend the autonomous period 10 - 15 seconds, and give teams bonus points for autonomously balancing their robot.

Talk about a challenge, as one of the teams that did it successfully last year in FTC it's not easy..at all, did I mention potentially disastrous if approached the wrong way.