Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

[Siri]

Originally Posted by nukemknight

The timers have a strip of 2" white Gaffer's tape across the top, the team number displays do not.

Wow, I've been in the driver's box for 6 years and never noticed that. Then again, I've also never confused it with Team 15, so maybe I just never noticed that I noticed it. I do see it in the photos now. (though it seems to be on the bottom?)

I guess if we were looking for a contrast, I'd be thinking something more along the lines of an LED light strip.

[kjohnson]

Originally Posted by Siri

though it seems to be on the bottom?

You're right, its on the bottom. No room for it at the top. Not saying that I noticed when I used to drive either... I only know the difference in the team/clock displays because I work field setup.

[SoMe_DuDe904]

Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor

At the North Star elims, it was removed with a few seconds left. It could have been done to decrease the cycle time by readying the final score or add drama by not showing the final score until the end, but I disagree with both of these explanations.

Hi to original poster and others that are angry with this removal of score.

As an excoach I understand the importance of real time scoring. At Northstar we pulled the scores in the last 5 seconds to keep excitement up in the audience while not affecting strategy of teams. I think it was effective to a degree but like someone said earlier, I think it really doesn't matter because most of the time the robots were balanced with 20+ seconds left in the match. Plus Wildstang put on one heck of a show. I think at champs the scoring will be heavily regulated and most likely taken off as the buzzer sounds.

I agree with the OP, pulling the scores off for over a minute is the worst idea anyone could make. It disrupts the game play, and makes it hard for GA's to call play by play and update scores/time easily. On top of all that it makes it impossible to form a onthefly strategy to win the game. Next year (if one of my fellow GA's don't beat me to it) during the conference calls for whatever game is being played ill make sure to mention this straight off the bat to clear up the confusion and post my findings on Chief Delphi.


TL'DR: Took scores off in the last 5 seconds off North Star for excitement, Will post findings on score removal from the head of GA.

EDIT: Just emailed the head GA

Thank you
Nate
Coach/EE/ME- KING TeC (2007-2008)
Lake Superior GA (2012-Present)
North Star GA (2011-Present)

[rsisk]

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

But that would just blend into the team number displays as well, They need a way to make the timer more obvious, like arrows or a contrasting border.

FIRST is changing the world.... I'm sure they could solve this challenge.

[Peck]

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

But that would just blend into the team number displays as well, They need a way to make the timer more obvious, like arrows or a contrasting border.

It might actually blend in less if u had 3 displays at one location instead of 1.

[fsracer]

Originally Posted by Peck

It was happening at the Colorado regional as well. a little tip: the time is shown on clocks on both sides of the field.

As per the operator of team 3137, the clock across the field was stuck at 15 seconds during the match.

[PayneTrain]

The timer isn't static like the numbers... how does that confuse people?

I know that if I lost score during a match, I would probably go insane. Lots of pressure on the field, and I consider the scoreboard to be my other pair of eyes. How is losing score not considered an FMS fault requiring a match reset?

Also, why not indicate score underneath the timer box on the field in the future? You can't lose that.

[pathew100]

My interpretation as a scorekeeper is that the GDC intended to have real-time scoring. Thus this is the way the scoring system was designed.

This year's game is basketball. At a "human" basketball game, you know what the score is at all times. I believe that this is also the intent of Rebound Rumble.

The "match result" screen is really a redundant holdover from the games where scores and penalties had to be added manually after the end of the match. You still get the crowd "pop" when the screen goes up, but the results are already known by then.

[kjohnson]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

Also, why not indicate score underneath the timer box on the field in the future? You can't lose that.

Visibility is the main concern here. Not visibility to the drive teams looking at it, but field visibility from whoever has to stand behind it. The field timers are normally positioned in the human player station. Should the human player(s) have to move/lean to see around a display dangling right in an average height student's line of sight?

The current team number and timer displays have been around for a while. I wouldn't expect a change anytime soon.

[Peck]

Originally Posted by nukemknight

Visibility is the main concern here. Not visibility to the drive teams looking at it, but field visibility from whoever has to stand behind it. The field timers are normally positioned in the human player station. Should the human player(s) have to move/lean to see around a display dangling right in an average height student's line of sight?

The current team number and timer displays have been around for a while. I wouldn't expect a change anytime soon.

3 ways to fix that issue:
1: make em smaller
2: bigger human player station
3: If game desine allows, put a "floating" box above the feild

[DjScribbles]

As I suggested earlier, put the score on the driver station, and have it published by the field management system.

I hadn't thought about the effect on the human player of adding another display for the score by the clock, but I'm sure this could be mitigated by creative positioning. It would definately make the clock/score displays stand out from team numbers better when there are two displays there.

Either way, the use of the big screen to get the score is really not ideal anyway, because no venue is the same. Putting it with the clock as part of the field and/or on the DS would give each venue more flexibility with their big-screen placement.

[Siri]

I think there might be room to just move it over (depending on the divisions of the alliance station). That might minimize the mounting issues and number of new components. Maybe I'm older than I think I am, but smaller (especially 1/2 size) and I'd start to have problems reading it.

[DjScribbles]

Also as a note, you would really only need one extra display next-to/below the clock which tells the team how many points they are ahead/behind by (ex +10 or -12), much quicker to read that way.

[SoMe_DuDe904]

Response from FIRST.

"Removal of Time/Score bar during match play has never been the recommended procedure at an FRC event.

The policy: Time/Score bar should not be removed until the match is over. Period. Removal is not an acceptable practice at any FIRST Regional or District event.

During Qualification Matches the Time/Score bar can stay projected and segue directly into Official Score posting, since the real-time scoring has proven to work well and is quick and efficient.

During Elimination Matches, the Time/Score bar can be removed after the match is over, to allow for Head Ref verification and to build anticipation/excitement. However, as soon as the score has been verified by the Head Ref and committed by the scorer, the Official Score should be posted as quickly as possible and in tandem with the Game Announcer who will simultaneously announce the score. It is not OK to delay Official Score posting. We want to post the score as soon as it is official."

Hope this helps.
Thanks!

NATE

[Ekcrbe]

I think the most important thing about the situation is to make sure everyone knows the rules, and that they are consistent across all events and all matches in each event. If the intent of the real-time scoring was to help the drive teams make informed decisions during the match, then the scores should stay up for the whole match. If it was intended to make the matches more exciting and easier to watch for the spectators, then taking the score back down sends mixed signals and looks like an accident, which would only serve to irritate viewers.

Also, what if the time box was changed to green and the scores were in red and blue above it, to help them all stand out better.