By the book: wifi-less scouting?

[RayTurner1126]

when 1126 tried to use internet-based scouting at FLR it was an absolute disaster, we constantly lost our wifi signal and we couldn't have all 6 scouters on at once, and then we had issues with being able to send our data to one common source. however, i don't recommend paper scouting, as it is very difficult to crunch numbers this way, and it tends to overall just be less reliable, because people don't feel as inclined to fill things out (my personal experience, coming from the kid that was walking around with a huge binder of scouting sheets at FLR)

[Patrick Chiang]

So does anyone know a way to set up a wireless network (completely local) that will not interfere with FMS (and vice versa)? Do we just run on a different frequency?

[slang800]

If you read section 4.3.1 Robot Wireless Control in the rules, you will see that wireless networks are prohibited anyway.

Teams are not allowed to set up their own 802.11a/b/g/n (2.4GHz or 5GHz) wireless communication (access points or ad-hoc networks) in the venue

Note that a wireless hot spot created by a cellular device would be considered an access point, and thus not allowed

This is probably made to prevent the wireless networks from interfering with the FMS, but could also be due to the fact that many arenas have vendor-supplied wifi and could have urged FIRST to make this rule. Either way, you shouldn't setup a wireless network at a event (unless it's a bluetooth PAN).

Because of this rule, our team has setup a completely wired network using a Apache2 server running on a laptop and a router to connect to other laptops which scouts use. However, we ran into issues with getting power at our last regional and needed to fall back on our paper system.

[Patrick Chiang]

Originally Posted by slang800

If you read section 4.3.1 Robot Wireless Control in the rules, you will see that wireless networks are prohibited anyway.

This is probably made to prevent the wireless networks from interfering with the FMS, but could also be due to the fact that many arenas have vendor-supplied wifi and could have urged FIRST to make this rule. Either way, you shouldn't setup a wireless network at a event (unless it's a bluetooth PAN).

Because of this rule, our team has setup a completely wired network using a Apache2 server running on a laptop and a router to connect to other laptops which scouts use. However, we ran into issues with getting power at our last regional and needed to fall back on our paper system.

That doesn't mean you can't connect to one of someone else's open networks (possibly from outside the arena) without internet access, and use it as a way to communicate between your scouts. That would be within the spirit of the rules right?

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Patrick Chiang

That doesn't mean you can't connect to one of someone else's open networks (possibly from outside the arena) without internet access, and use it as a way to communicate between your scouts. That would be within the spirit of the rules right?

If there is a Wifi wireless network that can be seen and/or connected in in the stands/arena/pits at a competition, it's in violation of the rules. It doesn't matter where the router is located, who set up the network, or whether it has access to the Internet.

If you really need to have a network connection for your scouting efforts, you will need to use 3G, 4G, or WiMAX networks.

[Patrick Chiang]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

If there is a Wifi wireless network that can be seen and/or connected in in the stands/arena/pits at a competition, it's in violation of the rules. It doesn't matter where the router is located, who set up the network, or whether it has access to the Internet.

If you really need to have a network connection for your scouting efforts, you will need to use 3G, 4G, or WiMAX networks.

What? There's always more than a few stray wifi hotspots around the arena. The rules only prohibit teams from setting them up, not from using these wifi hotspots. Also, last few years, I remember there were competition officials advertising these hotspots (which you had to pay for). I doubt the intention of the rules (or wording) is to prohibit people from using wireless at all times.

[Camren]

Originally Posted by jasongb

...so if we want to comply fully with the rules (Section 4.15 states "Do not arrange for Internet access or phone lines on the site or attempt to connect to the Internet."), we should refrain from using 'hot-spot' technology to enable our scouting team to hit the internet - right?

That puts us in the position of counting on the venue's wifi if we want to use a scouting tool that's internet-based. If that fails, we can certainly fall back to a paper-based system, but that's less than ideal.

Has someone already developed a bluetooth-based scouting app? Or something that provides a similar real-time aggregation of scoring information?

Thanks!

What i have developed is a printable google docs spreadsheet and a open office data base for scouting both in the pits and on the field

[Grim Tuesday]

Based on the discussion in this thread, there is no Wifi provided by the venue at Champs. Is there power? Our server system is a desktop; will we be able to get power for it?

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

Based on the discussion in this thread, there is no Wifi provided by the venue at Champs. Is there power? Our server system is a desktop; will we be able to get power for it?

What I saw 1319 do: They have a scouting cart (just two wheels on it, like a small unpowered Segway with a T-handle) that holds a robot battery, a power inverter, and a network switch. Don't know if you'd want to extend that to a desktop, but it's a thought.

[slijin]

Originally Posted by Patrick Chiang

What? There's always more than a few stray wifi hotspots around the arena. The rules only prohibit teams from setting them up, not from using these wifi hotspots. Also, last few years, I remember there were competition officials advertising these hotspots (which you had to pay for). I doubt the intention of the rules (or wording) is to prohibit people from using wireless at all times.

It is true that in the past, the venues themselves have offered wireless connections. However, as Arthur accurately notes, you should bring your own connection if you expect to run a network-based scouting system. Not only is the venue connection not guaranteed, it may well be subpar and spotty.

The intention of the rules prohibiting connections is to ensure that no wireless connections interfere with the FMS. Given the prevalence of apparent FMS issues this year, and a noted correlation between FMS issues and numerous open networks, it is likely that this will be enforced more strictly than ever.

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

Based on the discussion in this thread, there is no Wifi provided by the venue at Champs. Is there power? Our server system is a desktop; will we be able to get power for it?

I think it would be more accurate to say that there's no reliable venue-based wireless. That being said, I don't recall there being power in the stands in the dome. What you may want to consider is bringing a DC power supply (e.g. a old FRC battery) and an inverter, much like those used in cars, to switch that into an AC power supply to run your computer. We use this system to charge our DS and facilitate our Chairman's presentation; I know that other teams use a similar method (1676 uses a boat battery, I believe).

If you do follow this method, just make sure you verify that your battery and inverter specs meet the demands of your desktop.