Einstein Field issues Handled correctly?

Honestly, While I completely disagree with how things were handled, what else could they do? All other fields were torn down, and they spent every second not playing trying to find the root of the problem.

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

All other fields were torn down,

That is also a problem... they need to keep at least one other field ready to go in case this kind of thing happens...

[Racer26]

They should have gone to Galileo after the first replay when 118 sat dead in the replayed SF1.1

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

That is also a problem... they need to keep at least one other field ready to go in case this kind of thing happens...

I'm sure for next year, this is going to be on the list of "things to make happen."

For me, I can't be sure if they did the right thing or not. Under the circomstances, they probably did while in retrospect they didn't. Obviously there wasn't some backup plan in the event of the Einstein field having such errors, if it was the field at all. It might have been a "Einstein, the unsinkable field" mentality that it's been given time and time again, so having or needing a backup plan in case all goes haywire wasn't on anyone's mind.

That being said, as a volunteer myself I tend to give credit to the other volunteers and give them the benefit of the doubt that they did all they could. I won't say the field was to blame, but I would site the field as a probable culprit.

TL;DR, I don't know. But at least we know next year will have a lot more backup plans just in case of similar situations in the future, as well as a series of steps that would be taken to handle the issues correctly.

[George Nishimura]

Logistically, they did almost everything they could have. Replaying the first two semis was the only thing they could, I doubt from that point on they could realistically have replayed more matches, or used more time. They have a schedule to keep to.

However I do agree that they should have swapped sides, I've never been a volunteer but I imagine that's not too burdensome to change, and they should come up with a back-up plan in case of failure.

All in all it was the problem itself that was disappointing, not necessarily the solution. How they handle this problem hasn't been concluded, so I'd await further judgement. If they come out with some sort of explanation, it would help immensely.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Gnishi2011

All in all it was the problem itself that was disappointing, not necessarily the solution. How they handle this problem hasn't been concluded, so I'd await further judgement. If they come out with some sort of explanation, it would help immensely.

This.

Yes, the issues on Einstein were horrible, but after the first replay all you could really do is watch the train crash happen. The single most important thing is how FIRST addresses the problem in the coming weeks and months. If there isn't any comment or statement out of FIRST within a week or two, then I think we should all be highly concerned.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Wheeee. Well I feel a need to post a small rejoinder to plnyyanks' post above. My only quibble with his post is the suggestion that this isn't anyone's fault. This is unequivocally, without a doubt, FIRST's fault.

Understand, I'm not saying that the root cause lies with the field or something. I think it's pretty clear the the root cause of these failures must be associated with particular robots in some fashion. Galileo didn't really have any problems after switching to the Red station, after all. So it's unlikely that the issue is with a particular station color or number.

Nevertheless, it is FIRST's fault even if every single comms issue can be traced back to some specific problem with a robot. This is for the simple reason that we're playing with a FIRST mandated control system on a FIRST field, following FIRST's instructions for setting up and running on the field. All the equipment and software we use is supplied through FIRST. If they don't know this stuff well enough to troubleshoot these problems and help teams fix issues, it is entirely their fault for not doing due diligence and understanding their system. Yes, yes, a team or robot might be the cause of a particular case of comms issues, but it's inexcusable if FIRST can't tell that team how to fix the problem.

(shakes cane) Back in the day of IFI controllers, we didn't have these kinds of problems. When there were comms or controls issues, the IFI people worked the problem and solved it. The back in '07, IFI moved to new radios and teams had comms issues with them. IFI identified the problems and had FIRST post a list of fixes and solutions in a Team Update. Before the Week 1 regionals. Clearly, we have been in this situation before, only back then things got fixed because there were people available that knew the entire control system from code to chips.

The situation now is obviously different. I'm certain FIRST has experts available that know the NI hardware and software, PDB, etc. just as well as IFI knew things. I'm just as certain they don't have anyone that knows anything about our communication equipment since we're using off the shelf consumer components for that vital part of the robot. Heck, it took a FIRST team member/mentor writing a program to automate WPA programming back in '10. FIRST clearly has been treating our wifi equipment as a magic black box that should just work. It's entirely their fault for doing so, and we're seeing the results of it now.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

Honestly, While I completely disagree with how things were handled, what else could they do? All other fields were torn down, and they spent every second not playing trying to find the root of the problem.

The other fields were not torn down, but even with that in mind, there really was nothing that they (logistically) could do. Add that to the huge storm, they handled it the only way they could. They couldn't move everyone, it would be a logistical mess. They couldn't change the field or change the red alliance station, that would take way too long. The only thing that I think they could have possibly done(and even this is a longshot, I think the FMS would prevent it from going smoothly) would be having the red and blue alliances switch so that they could make ONE HUNDRED PERCENT sure that it was the field, and not the robots*



*I'm not saying it was the robots, but this would make it so that there's absolutely no way they could say, 'It's you, not the field'

[Robotmmm]

I feel bad for 180, 25, and 16. Sure they were declared the winners, but it will forever be a tainted win. We will never know who the real winners should have been.

[nlknauss]

Originally Posted by Robotmmm

I feel bad for 180, 25, and 16. Sure they were declared the winners, but it will forever be a tainted win. We will never know who the real winners should have been.

I don't know that I would call it a tainted win because we don't have any real information (other than our observations) to support that it is a field problem. Yes, this is the first time we've seen this kind of failure on Einstein but I don't think anything should be taken away from the winning alliance. We'll probably learn more soon...hopefully.

Did they handle it right? I'd say that they handled it well after the first 2 failures by replaying the matches. After that, I'm sure they did the best they could. No one wants to see robot bricks on any field at any level.

[efoote868]

180, 25, and 16 played and won on the red alliance. The field issues seemed to be just with the red alliance, so I would not consider it a "tainted" win.

I cheered when they announced replaying both matches. That was the correct decision, and as far as I know, the only decision they could have made.

[Sean Raia]

Originally Posted by efoote868

180, 25, and 16 played and won on the red alliance. The field issues seemed to be just with the red alliance, so I would not consider it a "tainted" win.

I cheered when they announced replaying both matches. That was the correct decision, and as far as I know, the only decision they could have made.

Simply not true. Blue alliance had com issues as well. Although strangely they surfaced later in the tournament.

[efoote868]

If only we could go back to IFI's radio system... wifi problems solved.

[Doc Wu]

Originally Posted by efoote868

If only we could go back to IFI's radio system... wifi problems solved.

Yeah. Try and push a video signal over that!

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by Sean Raia

Because the way I see it, it was more likely caused by the large number of 3g phone signals creating massive wireless noise.

That and the weather...

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

Consider the weather: electrical storms and hail. That can't be good for the field networks.