Einstein Field issues Handled correctly?

[Sean Raia]

Originally Posted by efoote868

180, 25, and 16 played and won on the red alliance. The field issues seemed to be just with the red alliance, so I would not consider it a "tainted" win.

I cheered when they announced replaying both matches. That was the correct decision, and as far as I know, the only decision they could have made.

Simply not true. Blue alliance had com issues as well. Although strangely they surfaced later in the tournament.

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by Sean Raia

Because the way I see it, it was more likely caused by the large number of 3g phone signals creating massive wireless noise.

That and the weather...

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

Consider the weather: electrical storms and hail. That can't be good for the field networks.

[ErikEdhlund]

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

Now, I'm not in St. Louis now, but I think the inclement weather started right around the same time as the Einstein matches. Thunderstorms and field trouble are correlated, in this case (but this doesn't imply causation, however). But I think the weather played a large part in the trouble - the field network had to have had some problems with all the electrical interference in the air, from both the weather and people's devices in the stands.

I am curious as to how it would be possible for electrical interference in an enclosed dome where there was no apparent power surges or outages. Not to sound rude but is that even possible?

[Sean Raia]

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

That and the weather...

This makes a lot of sense. To me, a field doesnt simply "go bad" for random driver stations at random times. It must have been an external cause

[Walter Deitzler]

Originally Posted by ErikEdhlund

I am curious as to how it would be possible for electrical interference in an enclosed dome where there was no apparent power surges or outages. Not to sound rude but is that even possible?

I don't know if its possible or not, but after living in ST. Louis my whole life, I have seen this stuff happen during bad weather. Sometimes during bad weather I will lose wireless, without a power surge or outage. I wouldn't put it past the Midwest...

[Sean Raia]

[efoote868]

If only we could go back to IFI's radio system... wifi problems solved.

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by ErikEdhlund

I am curious as to how it would be possible for electrical interference in an enclosed dome where there was no apparent power surges or outages. Not to sound rude but is that even possible?

This is how I see it. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not an expert on this stuff, but I don't think many of us here are. I'll do the best I can. Wifi networks use electromagnetic waves to transmit data (yes, oversimplified, I know). Thunderstorms emit lots of electromagnetic radiation. This interference, I think, had the possibility to cause some serious problems.

The dome is not impervious to electromagnetic radiation. Some interference can still get through (albeit less, compared to open space). Think about how, say, cell phones cause wireless interference: more electromagnetic radiation in the air, interfering with your network. This doesn't cause any power outages or surges, but still can take down the field network. It's similar with regard to that kind of atmospheric noise - it doesn't have to be enough for a power surge to impact the network.

[nlknauss]

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

That and the weather...

If this possible, maybe we'll see weather delays in FRC?! Like in sports, they could show highlights or replays of past games for the audience as they wait.

[BrendanB]

What gets me is that

1. Einstein was never used. Do they ever bring out 6 robots to check a practice match or do they hope they assembled it right?

2. The robots were all in working order before coming to Einstein.

3. Some robots worked in some matches then died later others not at all.

FIRST couldn't find a problem, but there is a problem and when you are down to the final four you can't just decide to keep playing through matches when there is a problem like this.

What I would have suggested (please note I will admit I'm not an expert at the FMS or electrical components in general) is that they run a test match in between awards that bypasses the FMS system. Just like a team would if they wanted to run a practice match at home. Each head ref enables the robots in practice mode so they run autonomous followed by teleop. Allow the teams to drive around the field.

Everybody works fine and 118 moves then you have field error if someone dies and 118 is still not moving and robots loose comms then you have robot failure. If the field is at error I've always wondered why they could just run a match as listed above where the refs start each robot at the exact same time. Understandably you might have some robots running a tenth of a second longer than others but I see that as better than not at all.

Again the above is a real long shot but it is an option other than running matches and hoping everyone is okay because you can't find a problem. I was at the CT regional where 118 and other had problems and they traced them to USB and robot errors not the field and I didn't see that here unless they kept it quiet.

Overall very sad to see robots perform amazing in their divisions and not agree with that field.

[Chi Meson]

I would be curious to know where the Einstein field was during regionals. I'm treading very lightly here, because we had just come to terms with our season and accepted fate for what it is: a slippery eel. For those who just watched 118, you saw exactly what happened in the CT semis. Watching the Robonauts brick again, and again, was terribly sad. They have such a beautiful robot, and tripling with them was always picture perfect.

The field in CT was the same as the one in NYC , which also had persistent comm issues, predominantly on the red side. So, where has Einstein been?

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Chi Meson

I would be curious to know where the Einstein field was during regionals. I'm treading very lightly here, because we had just come to terms with our season and accepted fate for what it is: a slippery eel. For those who just watched 188, you saw exactly what happened in the CT semis. Watching the Robonauts brick again, and again, was terribly sad. They have such a beautiful robot, and tripling with them was always picture perfect.

The field in CT was the same as the one in NYC , which also had persistent comm issues, predominantly on the red side. So, where has Einstein been?

Einstein has been the backup field sitting in a warehouse all season, AKA never been used. Part of me believes that the robots we saw were the first robots ever to connect to that FMS. I don't know much about the system but I don't believe a FIRST field is working properly and is ready for competition until I see 6 robots play a match with no issues.

[ErikEdhlund]

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

This is how I see it. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not an expert on this stuff, but I don't think many of us here are. I'll do the best I can. Wifi networks use electromagnetic waves to transmit data (yes, oversimplified, I know). Thunderstorms emit lots of electromagnetic radiation. This interference, I think, had the possibility to cause some serious problems.

The dome is not impervious to electromagnetic radiation. Some interference can still get through (albeit less, compared to open space). Think about how, say, cell phones cause wireless interference: more electromagnetic radiation in the air, interfering with your network. This doesn't cause any power outages or surges, but still can take down the field network. It's similar with regard to that kind of atmospheric noise - it doesn't have to be enough for a power surge to impact the network.

There are a few problems here,wouldn't make sense that the entire stadium be electrically grounded in case of lightning striking the dome itself? Another concern would be based on the information provided why wouldn't wifi in schools or homes lose connection during bad storms? There is also the problem that the only way the noise would affect the robot connection would be if we all connected to that router since 3G and the competition signal run on different wavelengths.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Chi Meson

I would be curious to know where the Einstein field was during regionals. I'm treading very lightly here, because we had just come to terms with our season and accepted fate for what it is: a slippery eel. For those who just watched 118, you saw exactly what happened in the CT semis. Watching the Robonauts brick again, and again, was terribly sad. They have such a beautiful robot, and tripling with them was always picture perfect.

The field in CT was the same as the one in NYC , which also had persistent comm issues, predominantly on the red side. So, where has Einstein been?

Einstein (correct me if I'm wrong) is the emergency backup field that spends all season sitting in a warehouse in Memphis, Tennessee.

[ghostmachine360]

You are correct.