Einstein Field issues Handled correctly?

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by JM987

That's not true. We were on the blue alliance in the finals and were having major problems.

Ooh, we have someone from one of the Einstein teams. What were the reactions of the teams with issues, and how did the FTA look at it?

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by stevend1994

I would think it could be due to the issues at FLR last year, which I believe are why Code Bonde was created.

Here's something else to note, in regards to the field being a fresh, never used field. Prior to the matches, the red alliance stations had the numbers, "16, 2194, 330". I don't know what the blue station had because of where I was sitting, but this struck me as something very strange.

Look at the "Match Results" webpage. There's a fake Quals match with those numbers on the blue alliance (behind the red goals). I guarantee you they set things up on Einstein by setting up a new regional with the division winners and finalists, scoring some matches, and running a fake alliance pairing.

[jasonbrooks]

Originally Posted by stevend1994

Wow. I totally forgot about Code Bonde until now. Why DIDN'T they do that? I assume there must have been a reason...has it been used at all this season?

I'm sorry, but I am from an FTC team...what is Code Bonde?

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by jasonbrooks

I'm sorry, but I am from an FTC team...what is Code Bonde?

Originally Posted by FRC Team Update Manual

Code Bondé



Summary: If a competition’s wireless environment has too many Access Points (AP’s), the wireless bridge provided to teams will not be able to connect to the field’s AP. Should FIRST determine that an event meets this criteria, we will employ an emergency procedure, called Operation Bondé, to insure that the event continues with minimal impact. This determination will most likely be made Wednesday or Thursday morning, and will be communicated to teams as early as possible. In the event of an Operation Bondé, teams will use a DLink DIR-825, provided by FIRST in the queue, instead of the DAP-1522 that’s required by the rules.



Background: The DAP-1522 wireless bridge required for competition will not link to FIRST’s field access point if there are more than approximately 60 active access points in the venue. FIRST is working with all scheduled venues to reduce the number of access points active during the competition.



In the event that a venue cannot limit the number of active access points, FIRST will implement the emergency WiFi plan. FIRST has identified and tested an alternate bridge, the DIR-825, which is successful at reliably connecting with the FIRST access point in hostile WiFi environments like those described above.



Detail: FIRST will ship a small batch of these devices to each event to be used in the event of a hostile wireless environment. Teams will be asked to trade out their DAP-1522 wireless bridge for the FIRST provided DIR-825 while they’re in queuing, use it in the match, and then return it to the field crew after leaving the field.

Code Bonde is used as an emergency in case of a hostile wifi environment.

[Botwoon]

Originally Posted by Wing

Ooh, we have someone from one of the Einstein teams. What were the reactions of the teams with issues, and how did the FTA look at it?

Teams that lost because of it were livid. Teams that benefited from it shared the opinions of everyone here. I thought that the Curie eliminations were far more exciting than any single match played on Einstein. The finals on Curie were intense.

[ErikEdhlund]

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

This:


I'm not saying that an electrical current (like, electrons flowing) passes from the sky, through the dome, and into the field network. Like you said, I'd assume the dome is grounded, preventing this from happening. I am saying that the culprit might be electromagnetic radiation, not current. Electromagnetic radiation exhibits exhibits wave-like behavior as it travels through space. This would allow it to travel through the (grounded) dome and interfere with the network. The wave emitted by the storm would interact with the wave emitted by the router, get into conflict, and mess things up for the teams.

But the problem is that based on the theory behind electromagnetic radiation we would have interference during ever major thunderstorm in lesser insulated buildings. Also if there was any major waves that would affect the stadium, other electronic devices such as phones and laptops would be affected as well.

[JM987]

Originally Posted by Wing

Ooh, we have someone from one of the Einstein teams. What were the reactions of the teams with issues, and how did the FTA look at it?

I didn't come on to rant just recognize something went wrong. If there were Com issues involved they should've took a better approach instead of in a sense saying oh, well better luck next year. I mean, what was the point replaying SF1-1 and SF2-1 then?

As far as the FTA goes, it seems like they didn't do anything to change the outcome or else it would've never happened. Or at least waited until the issue was resolved.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by ErikEdhlund

But the problem is that based on the theory behind electromagnetic radiation we would have interference during ever major thunderstorm in lesser insulated buildings. Also if there was any major waves that would affect the stadium, other electronic devices such as phones and laptops would be affected as well.

Well, for what it's worth, as I was leaving the dome after Einstein, I was unable to send texts on my phone and got the error, "Network not responding". I have Verizon and not a smartphone, if this post even matters at all haha.

[Deetman]

Originally Posted by stevend1994

Well, for what it's worth, as I was leaving the dome after Einstein, I was unable to send texts on my phone and got the error, "Network not responding". I have Verizon and not a smartphone, if this post even matters at all haha.

You and everyone else trying to leave were using their phones, inside a pseudo Faraday cage, all trying to communicate with the same few cell towers. No surprise at all that the cell network could have been overloaded.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Deetman

You and everyone else trying to leave were using their phones, inside a pseudo Faraday cage, all trying to communicate with the same few cell towers. No surprise at all that the cell network could have been overloaded.

I assumed it was something like that, as I said, that was a pointless post I made haha.

[splatter]

in my opinion no one really won nationals. those disconnects cost the alliance the final matches. this could have changed the whole out come of the entire event. you should not pay upwards of 10,000 plus dollars and be left in the dust. they should have taken a 1 hour time out and finished the awards. and then finished the matches. leaving those teams behind is not the spirit of gracious professionalism at all.
that's just my too cents on the issue

[DominickC]

I completely agree, splatter. The amount of issues with the FMS was unprecedented, especially given that many of the robots have had nearly no FMS issues until Einstein.

With the problems going on, they might not have been able to do much of anything in an hour. I don't know how long it would've taken to enact Code Bonde, but it should've been tried.

[splatter]

our team had connections problems all day luckily we were able to work them out but the FTA did every things in his power to help us he did not leave us flat once. and that was in practice matches and early qualifiers. so it was very disappointing i really felt like no one truly won at all in a general sense. but nice job to all of the teams in the finals nice job all ! to find a true winner it should all be re done but it wont happen. good job winners!

this is a reply to

I didn't come on to rant just recognize something went wrong. If there were Com issues involved they should've took a better approach instead of in a sense saying oh, well better luck next year. I mean, what was the point replaying SF1-1 and SF2-1 then?

As far as the FTA goes, it seems like they didn't do anything to change the outcome or else it would've never happened. Or at least waited until the issue was resolved.

from jm987

[efoote868]

Originally Posted by JM987

That's not true. We were on the blue alliance in the finals and were having major problems.

Like I said, "seemed to be". The only bots that were dead on the field were on red.
From the stands, it's difficult to tell when a team is having comm issues, unless they stay put through the entire match.

I think FIRST needs to take a good hard look at their system, and find a way to implement something more robust. Perhaps the field should remain pristine, but use a different (used) FMS.

[splatter]

from what i remember the robot status light (the orange blinking light)
was in the non connection state of the non moving robots.