Supporting the FIRST organization through growing pains

[470-RBTX]

As a precursor to what I have to say I want to acknowledge that the field issues were in no way "okay," it's a shame that the playing experience on Einstein was tainted for all.

But with that said, we as members of FIRST need to continue to support the organization we know and love. Dean and Woodie were visibly upset and under immense amounts of stress during the finals, And I can't even imagine the anger that the teams effected must have felt, but what we all have to remember is that FIRST is still in it's infancy. The MLB has had almost 150 years to pull off successful world series' yet to this day you'll still find blown calls. With FIRST just 20 years young and filled with so much potential it'd be a shame to let this hinder it's growth.

If FIRST still has these problems when teams start having 5 digit numbers then we can gripe and complain, but for now it's nothing but a growing pain.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I'd just like to point out that the Vex Robotics Competition is much younger than FIRST or FRC, and it manages to pull off tons of volunteer run competitions and a huge world championship with far fewer issues like this. The issue isn't the age of the program it's the age and development of the control system.

[470-RBTX]

That statement while possibly true might be skewed because FRC has such a bigger spotlight than VRC.

[shawnz]

I could hardly stand to see Dr. Flowers while he was reading his lines. Him and Mr. Kamen have sunk so much into this one day that it's unbelievable. There was nothing they or anyone else there could have done. This is probably the kind of situation that they have nightmares about. I really wish I could thank them personally for keeping their composure throughout the whole event.

I take solace in the fact that the whole ride up to Einstein was amazing for everyone involved. We got to see an all-Canadian alliance (with a rookie team!) make it. 1114 and 2056 had a legendary finals match at GTR-W. I got to see some of the most amazing machines I ever have, and I've learned the most of any season yet (which seems to be the trend).

Thank you everyone at FIRST!

[Kevin Sevcik]

FRC has a bigger spotlight on CD, to be sure. But a competition boasting 4800 teams, 300 tournaments, and a world championship hosted by Kari Byron of the Mythbusters is hardly obscure.

Also, VEX has an installed base as big or bigger than FRC's and VEX handles technical problems like this much better. And kit plus entry fee costs a fifth or less of FRC. So I think FRC (and FTC) might have just a few things about tech support from VEX.

[popnbrown]

Well the other issue is, VEX is completely out of VEX parts. FRC/FTC are composed of parts NOT by one manufacturers but a collaboration of a bunch of them.

TBH I think FRC/FTC are cooler, the fact that you get to work with different equipment and honestly, while I do feel bad for all teams (not only Einstein) that have had problems with the FMS/FCS, I think it's a unique learning experience. Kinda still shows you that there is always improvement to the Science and Technology we have today, which is exactly what we're trying to do in FIRST.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by popnbrown

Well the other issue is, VEX is completely out of VEX parts. FRC/FTC are composed of parts NOT by one manufacturers but a collaboration of a bunch of them.

I'm by no means an expert on such subjects, but I have to believe this is a key issue in the modern FRC control system. When you have vertical integration through the whole system, things can often be made more robust. (Consider syncing an iPhone with a Mac versus using iTunes on Windows.)

while I do feel bad for all teams (not only Einstein) that have had problems with the FMS/FCS, I think it's a unique learning experience. Kinda still shows you that there is always improvement to the Science and Technology we have today, which is exactly what we're trying to do in FIRST.

While that message is all well and good, I don't think the competition field is the place to espouse it. Doesn't matter if it's Einstein or the All-Plain-Kitbots-Middle-O-Nowhere District.

[JohnBoucher]

If FIRST wants to continue to grow they need to make these problems go away. They need to keep it easy enough for a true rookie team to build something that can compete. If these problems happen to seasoned teams then how can a true rookie team keep pace.

[popnbrown]

Originally Posted by Billfred

I'm by no means an expert on such subjects, but I have to believe this is a key issue in the modern FRC control system. When you have vertical integration through the whole system, things can often be made more robust. (Consider syncing an iPhone with a Mac versus using iTunes on Windows.)

True but I think it's cool how FRC uses a mixed system, shows you the GP and Coop and core values of FIRST that they are trying to spread.

While that message is all well and good, I don't think the competition field is the place to espouse it. Doesn't matter if it's Einstein or the All-Plain-Kitbots-Middle-O-Nowhere District.

Well, I semi-disagree. I think it's a concept and something to be espoused fully and all the time. I think we all know that STEM is important, and we're all working to encourage that.


Kinda irrelevant but still relevant rant:
I'm starting to get a feeling that FIRST is turning into another robotics competition, and it's kind of saddening. Winning is not everything. People say we are all winners to lift spirits, but honestly, I do believe that those that participate in FIRST are winners. I see a lot of people losing the real meaning of FIRST and participating in it as another competition. It's a whole lot more than that....a whole lot.

[Clayton Yocom]

Originally Posted by popnbrown

I'm starting to get a feeling that FIRST is turning into another robotics competition, and it's kind of saddening. Winning is not everything. People say we are all winners to lift spirits, but honestly, I do believe that those that participate in FIRST are winners. I see a lot of people losing the real meaning of FIRST and participating in it as another competition. It's a whole lot more than that....a whole lot.

Please don't look at the complaining as a part of the competition. Its how we can make it better. Ask us how we feel after this season and I'm sure we'll say we're very happy with it. Even to the "powerhouse teams", and even when they are in a slump after a long competitive streak, we don't hang our heads and cry about the season. We try to find out how next year can be better. We all can agree that regardless of how the competition season goes, we learn much too much to say that we didn't love it.

[bduddy]

Just because FRC is not all about the competition on the field does not mean that FIRST is exempt from getting that part right. Not only did FIRST fail to do that in about the most public way possible last night, there have been issues all year with a FIRST-provided, unchangeable system that has far too many points of failure and often appears to break down for no discernible reason. Also, the competition itself not being fair eventually affects every part of the program.

[popnbrown]

Originally Posted by Clayton Yocom

Please don't look at the complaining as a part of the competition. Its how we can make it better. Ask us how we feel after this season and I'm sure we'll say we're very happy with it. Even to the "powerhouse teams", and even when they are in a slump after a long competitive streak, we don't hang our heads and cry about the season. We try to find out how next year can be better. We all can agree that regardless of how the competition season goes, we learn much too much to say that we didn't love it.

Fair enough! Just a feeling, and you're right to an extent I guess.

And I agree to a full extent that what happened is not good AT ALL. But I just don't want students and participants in general to be disheartened and upset that FIRST or whomever is making it un fair that they forget the actual reason why we are here, and that reason is not to compete and win trophies. That's all. FIRST achieves to put a team in every high school like a football team, but each FIRST team's end goals are very different from a football team.

Not saying trophies don't matter, just that it's not all about them.