FIRST does have other options re Enistein.

[James Tonthat]

I think instead of going to the championship, we should have Dave review all the footage of the regional season. That way he can review all the facts of the match and tell us who should win the championship.

It'd save the rest of us a bunch of time off from work, school, etc. to come up with strategies and things like that during the competition.

[pathew100]

Originally Posted by James Tonthat

I think instead of going to the championship, we should have Dave review all the footage of the regional season. That way he can review all the facts of the match and tell us who should win the championship.

It'd save the rest of us a bunch of time off from work, school, etc. to come up with strategies and things like that during the competition.

Exactly. Or just use the predictive OPR calculator, figure out who's at the top, send them their trophies and call it a day. Much easier than everyone having to go to St Louis....

[lorem3k]

Another user mentioned in a different thread that he felt that the winning alliance would get a bad reputation as "the teams that only won because of comm issues". I agree that the communication issues on Einstein were terrible, but we shouldn't dismiss the fact that every robot there was a quality machine. Doing so would be extremely shortsighted and disrespectful to the teams that put countless hours of work in this season.

[AmoryG]

Originally Posted by lorem3k

Another user mentioned in a different thread that he felt that the winning alliance would get a bad reputation as "the teams that only won because of comm issues". I agree that the communication issues on Einstein were terrible, but we shouldn't dismiss the fact that every robot there was a quality machine. Doing so would be extremely shortsighted and disrespectful to the teams that put countless hours of work in this season.

I'm not saying that 4334 did not have a quality robot, they did. They worked very well with 2056/1114, especially when it came to tripple balancing (which won them the matches that mattered the most). But I would say that since my rookie year in 2008, I've always thought the alliance with the best 3rd robot won the division. 148, won it all in 2008, and they probably had one of the best auto/lap bots that year. 971 was completely overlooked in 2009, even though they went undefeated at their only regional event. 177 I thought was an exceptional mid ranged scorer and had a very nice drivetrain. 973 was a steal and should not have been the second to last pick (I remember either the 111 or 254 scouters saying they were the 7nth robot in their depth chart). And 16? The robot ranked voted #7 best robot in the world chosen as a 3rd pick is completely absurd and really says it all.

I don't even understand the logic behind saying individually, the winning alliance members weren't that good. 16 won 3 regionals, 25 won a district event and were district champs, and 180 won a regional and was a finalist at another event. All as captains or first picks. You don't get much better than that.

[Racer26]

I have no doubts in my mind that the Championship COULD have ended up with 16, 25, and 180 as Champions regardless of the field issues.

Just as I have no doubts it could have just as easily been 207, 233, and 987, or 1114, 2056, and 4334, or 118, 548, and 2194.

It wasn't a fair fight. Yes, the field issues were pervasive and affected both alliances, but didn't do so equally, and thus each match was virtually assigned a winner by random chance, thanks to the unreliability of the field.

It is absolutely unfounded to blame the teams for what happened. A few of the teams that mysteriously started having issues on Einstein had no such issues at any point prior in the season. 4334 included.

In my mind: Inviting all 12 Einstein teams to CMP 2013 is not enough. Most of them are either already qualified as of right now (16, 25, 180, 1114), or have a reasonable expectation that they will earn their way in at a Regional event in 2013 (118, 233, 987, 2056), either through winning a regional, or RCA/EI.

Inviting all 12 teams to CMP 2013, with no Registration fee? That's better. Though I would actually prefer to see all 12 teams crowned 2012 Championship Winners (complete with the invitation to the 2013 CMP), and let them pay their CMP registrations. The game played on Einstein was not Rebound Rumble, so we will never know who the true Rebound Rumble champions would have been.

[Undertones]

Every single thread regarding Einstein is exactly the same right now.

Everyone seems to think a different alliance would have won had there been no radio issues. There is, however, 2 things I think we can all agree on;

1. All the teams of Einstein earned their way there. Through one way or another, every single team on Einstein deserved to be there and was part of a very strong alliance.
2. There was in fact field problems. It's nobody's call to say who was more or less affected by the field. It's just how it is.

Now, what happened sucked, and I'm fairly certain that everybody wanted nothing more than a fair shot at the world title. With that in mind, I support and congratulate the winning alliance. Nobody should ever hold someone's accomplishments against them.

Now, there's pretty much infinite options of what FIRST could do to try to right this situation. They have already apologized and told us they would get to the bottom of what happened. The best and most reasonable option I have seen so far is an invitation to the 2013 Championship, and I would not be complaining if it was on the house. Now, what they do is ultimately up to them, and we just have to place what little faith we may have back into the system.

As I said in a previous post regarding Einstein, learn from the past and apply it to the future.

Also, although this thread may be controversial, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Please respect that.

Mac

[philso]

Since it is so likely that most of the teams on Einstein will earn their way back next year, inviting them back to compete may be superfluous.

How about inviting the team members, including those who graduate this year, to sit in front row seats to personally witness Einstien matches where no dropped comms issues affect the performance of the robots. Of course this is after a season of faultess performance from the FMS where all instances of dead robots are shown to be truly due to faults in the robot. I think it is fair to say that the FIRST community holds all the teams that made it to Einstein in high regard and would be happy for them to serve as our representatives to confirm that the dropped comms issues have truly been fixed.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by philso

Since it is so likely that most of the teams on Einstein will earn their way back next year, inviting them back to compete may be superfluous.

Not necessarily true. Of the 12 2011 Einstein teams, 8 did not have prequalified status for 2012. Only 4 of these teams qualified for the 2012 World Championship. Teams as strong 177, 217, 968 and 1503 all did not make it back to St. Louis.

[philso]

My apologies, Karthik. I had forgotten about examples such as 118 from across Houston who finally earned a seat at their third regional.

I do stand by my main point that FIRST has some "homework" to do over the next year.