This Is Appalling Behavior At A FIRST Event

[Solidstate89]

That kind of behavior is unforgivable regardless of the venue. But to see that not only FIRST students but even (at least in one case) a Mentor was involved in such wanton behavior is truly depressing. I sincerely hope that Cat wasn't injured in anyway.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Those folks would be well-served by spending 2 days in a wheelchair. It is a real eye-opener.

Yes. Having to navigate distance, terrain, crowds, doors, bathrooms, and very obnoxious people with robots powered by lack of thinking or awareness of surroundings.

Jane

[Phyrxes]

Regarding the crush of humanity at the entrance, is there a better solution than going to amusement park style line management to enter? Especially since you don't really need it but once a day.

As a mentor on a team who came up to Chesapeake for the first time this past year the reduction in teams yelling "Robot!"constantly was awesome.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by RoboMom

There should be no teams yelling "robot".

This is a best practice that should be implemented on every team:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...4&postcount=35

We had the green shirts talk about this with every team at our local regional this year. It works.

It only works if the green-shirted volunteers agree with it. After I saw a person holding a sign at the entrance to the pits in St Louis reminding everyone to yell ROBOT! whenever pushing a robot cart, I spoke with a couple of the safety advisors to ask if people yelling ROBOT! was a "best practice" or if it was something that should be discouraged. They both looked at me as if I were from another planet and told me that every team should be encouraged to do it...and then they pointed out the person they had just commended for holding a sign at the entrance to the pits reminding everyone to yell ROBOT! whenever pushing a robot cart.

At two separate events this year I was talking with a student in a team's pit when that student suddenly yelled ROBOT! in my face, making me jump backwards. In neither case did I actually end up in the path of the oncoming robot -- in fact, in both cases the robot was already past the pit and was heading away. I am afraid I might have gotten a bit snippy at the offenders, pointing out to them that their shouting was taking attention away from what people needed to be watching out for, and that they had no reason to be shouting about a robot that they themselves were not escorting, especially when there was nobody in the way of said robot who needed a warning.

[GBK]

While I agree that this is not the kind of behavior we should tolerate, there are some things that could help reduce some of the crowd problems. I will say that at some point on Saturday morning there was a woman trying to get on the elevator when the door opened there was a surge of people trying to get on before her. I was actually able to block part of them from behind me but was surprised how many people got on the elevator ahead of her.
Foot traffic at St Louis could have been directed much better. There was only one entrance to the pit, once you got past all the people standing in front of the entrance (great place to just stand) and actually got into the pit area, you were met with people trying to go out the same way everyone was coming in. Then you had to cross the line of foot/robot traffic that was coming and going from the fields not just FRC but FTC as well. I wont even go into the people that feel they need to stop for what seems like no reason when waking in a crowd. Kind of like getting to the top of an escalator and stopping to look around to find where you want to go next.
Now back to the original subject...
I think if I was in a wheelchair and someone tried to jump over me to get somewhere faster or ahead of me, they might find them selves looking up at me from the floor.

[Tom Line]

That is horrible behavior. We have a talk before every event with our team and try to explain the image we need to present and the behavior we all need to adhere to.

As FIRST grows you will naturally see a larger cross-section of people involved. I've seen similar complaints about the people who frequent Chief Delphi as well. People complain that it has become less technical, less close-knit, and more of the /facebook/twitter/meme/ crowd has adopted it. I think that is the natural result of growth.

The first thing you can do is continue to remind your team of how they need to act. In fact, I know many teams ban their students from posting on Chief Delphi altogether. I wouldn't recommend that myself, but having a mentor who follows all your team's posts might be a good idea.

Likewise, at events, SPEAK UP. Passivity has never changed anything. If a team is being rude, saving seats, etc, then talk to the FTA and volunteers and have them handle it, or talk to the teams themselves.

We have a lot of new people entering the sport (just wait until the Boys and Girls teams come in) and they will not start out knowing the culture.

Heck, I STILL see low number teams with flashing lights and sound on their carts, taking extremely loud and obnoxious noisemakers into the stands, and reserving entire sections for themselves.

We have a lot of work to do.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

It only works if the green-shirted volunteers agree with it. After I saw a person holding a sign at the entrance to the pits in St Louis reminding everyone to yell ROBOT! whenever pushing a robot cart, I spoke with a couple of the safety advisors to ask if people yelling ROBOT! was a "best practice" or if it was something that should be discouraged. They both looked at me as if I were from another planet and told me that every team should be encouraged to do it...and then they pointed out the person they had just commended for holding a sign at the entrance to the pits reminding everyone to yell ROBOT! whenever pushing a robot cart.

At two separate events this year I was talking with a student in a team's pit when that student suddenly yelled ROBOT! in my face, making me jump backwards. In neither case did I actually end up in the path of the oncoming robot -- in fact, in both cases the robot was already past the pit and was heading away. I am afraid I might have gotten a bit snippy at the offenders, pointing out to them that their shouting was taking attention away from what people needed to be watching out for, and that they had no reason to be shouting about a robot that they themselves were not escorting, especially when there was nobody in the way of said robot who needed a warning.

I never saw that sign, but it explains a few things. For the entire competition I tried to stick to a polite "excuse us" with "please"s and "thank you"s if there was time. But few even acknowledged our presence. Sometimes adding something like "our robot needs to get by" would get their attention (probably due to the inclusion of the word robot). But some clusters wouldn't even acknowledge this. They were all expecting to hear someone scream ROBOT! to signal that they had to return to reality and pay attention.

This level of complacency is not only rude, it can be dangerous. Regardless of whether or not there is a robot anywhere near you, blocking an aisle is not a good idea; furthermore, ignoring someone who politely asks to get by you, again, whether or not they have a robot, is just plain rude. The proper response would be to do your best to facilitate their request to pass. If there is simply a traffic jam, explain that to the person. If their is a reason that you are blocking the aisle, such as a pool of battery acid or some other safety hazard, notify the person. It is almost never acceptable to ignore someones polite request to get by a crowd in the pits, or in most situations really.

[torihoelscher]

My grandparents that are in their 80's were ran over by people trying to get to seats when the doors opened in the morning. We were heading to the scholarship breakfast and were completely ran over. People were also running and the volunteers are saying "No running. Stop running!" No one that I could see was listening to them. I would occasionally yell to people "Stop running and be courteous to other people!!" My grandparents cannot walk fast and it gave them great stress to be going through a crowd of immature (sorry if I offend) students/mentors.

[Solidstate89]

Originally Posted by torihoelscher

My grandparents that are in their 80's were ran over by people trying to get to seats when the doors opened in the morning. We were heading to the scholarship breakfast and were completely ran over. People were also running and the volunteers are saying "No running. Stop running!" No one that I could see was listening to them. I would occasionally yell to people "Stop running and be courteous to other people!!" My grandparents cannot walk fast and it gave them great stress to be going through a crowd of immature (sorry if I offend) students/mentors.

As said in a couple of other posts. Stuff like this is a two-fold problem. Not only are there people who are totally oblivious to the needs of those around them but you have a bottleneck affect where everyone is forced through one entrance.

Every morning at FLR (and pretty much every other regional, but FLR was the only one I attended all 3 days of) everyone lined up in the overcrowded atrium waiting to get in. Three sets of triple doors (that opened IN towards the crowd I might add...) was not enough to relieve the congestion.

To keep problems like this from continuing to happen you need effort from both the teams themselves (whether from Mentors or team leadership that discourage this) and from FIRST itself at every event to better handle such bottleneck congestion. And I just want to make it clear, even with the problem of forcing everyone through one entrance, that's absolutely no excuse for running people over. However if given multiple entrances along with a different mentality from the team members themselves, issues like this can be solved.

[popnbrown]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

The first thing you can do is continue to remind your team of how they need to act. In fact, I know many teams ban their students from posting on Chief Delphi altogether. I wouldn't recommend that myself, but having a mentor who follows all your team's posts might be a good idea.

I would be unhappy with a banning of a student from Chiefdelphi. To be honest, CD is one of the first places where I got a negative remark about what I said. My intention was completely not harmful but I could see how I said it in a way that came off as negative. It's been a place not only for me to learn, but to develop a completely different set of communication skills. See that's the really cool thing about FIRST, people who have been in it, understand this is a learning process. We are changing culture and bringing about new ideas, CD to me is a place to make sure that we can look after ourselves and correct ourselves ESPECIALLY high school students, before they go out in the real world, and say some unintentionally negative thing in the workplace.

Likewise, at events, SPEAK UP. Passivity has never changed anything. If a team is being rude, saving seats, etc, then talk to the FTA and volunteers and have them handle it, or talk to the teams themselves.

So this is a good topic, I'm guilty as heck of saving seats. I save them for whatever team I'm in, because a lot of the students are wandering doing their task etc. This touches on a point further on, but I love the spirit and enthusiasm that FIRST allows us to bring. Every single event I go to, I tell the team I'm with, you haven't had a successful competition till you loose your voice (jokingly of course) but EVERYONE takes it seriously. Bringing it back, the reason I save seats, is so that my team can sit together and in the case of Ctrl-Z, be a gigantic blob of orange, with one unanimous voice, just being proud that we have a robot out there moving after 6 weeks of some very tough work.

So while I understand the seats saving cringing, I must respectfully disagree. Of course, I'm usually reasonable and save only the seats I know will be taken up, but sometimes you have to overestimate.

Heck, I STILL see low number teams with flashing lights and sound on their carts, taking extremely loud and obnoxious noisemakers into the stands, and reserving entire sections for themselves.

I'll give the flashing lights and sounds on their carts, even the talking loud. If voice count, then I am guilt again for obnoxious noisemakers in the stands. As a new mentor, I've actually clashed a few times with several people on this subject. My team 1403 has always stood for their matches, it wasn't until I was a sophomore, when we got loud, and I mean LOUD, during our matches. I kid you not, if it weren't for the fun I had my sophomore year at the NJ Regional and the Boston Regional, I'm not sure I would be here. Those two events directly were a cause to my becoming a team captain, continuing the spirit tradition of our team, and pushing that to my new team here.

On that note, to share a quick story and make this post EVEN longer. During the finals at Midwest, (it got heated), my entire team was standing. At this point, we thought we were in contention for several awards, but most of us knew chances of actually winning anything were slim. We got picked, which was super exciting, but we lost in QF. Anyways, we were watching the finals, and I was upset, because as many mentors feel, I knew I had a terrific group of kids and I really wanted their rookie year to be special. Then......I hear a roar of "Red Alliance"...."Blue Alliance"...chant behind me. I turn around it was my team, even though this match meant nothing to them. They proudly wore their really really bright orange uniform and were chanting for several veteran teams, that they've never met till 2 days ago. Their chant actually got a hold of nearby Wildstang, and a far Bomb Squad, who also joined in.

All I can say is, and I'll stick to this for a long time. I could care less about what awards we got, what college these kids go to, how much money they make. What mattered to me, is that for 3 days, all they cared about was having fun, getting out there, learning new things that their mentors have no idea about (Bomb Squad's catapult), and most importantly being passionate. That's what I think is missing from today's world, passion. People do things because it's a good thing to do, but there is no passion. And to see that a bunch of rag-tag group of kids, who most of were forced into this by their parents, develop this passion for being EXCITED about something they worked on and no matter what happened this passion not leaving, totally made my year.

So after a long-winded post, and raising way too many points. I'll conclude with this. FIRST has the potential to be something really really great. IT is about robots, and as a hopefully future-roboticist, that makes me happy but the real truth is that it is ALSO way more than robots.....way more....i feel like i keep saying this.

I wish Will.I.Am, took part in FIRST. I would talk about FIRST everywhere I go (which I guess he does now ).


I'm done for now.

[torihoelscher]

Originally Posted by Solidstate89

As said in a couple of other posts. Stuff like this is a two-fold problem. Not only are there people who are totally oblivious to the needs of those around them but you have a bottleneck affect where everyone is forced through one entrance.

Every morning at FLR (and pretty much every other regional, but FLR was the only one I attended all 3 days of) everyone lined up in the overcrowded atrium waiting to get in. Three sets of triple doors (that opened IN towards the crowd I might add...) was not enough to relieve the congestion.

To keep problems like this from continuing to happen you need effort from both the teams themselves (whether from Mentors or team leadership that discourage this) and from FIRST itself at every event to better handle such bottleneck congestion. And I just want to make it clear, even with the problem of forcing everyone through one entrance, that's absolutely no excuse for running people over. However if given multiple entrances along with a different mentality from the team members themselves, issues like this can be solved.

I think FIRST should make an announcement during Kick Off or before the first event to remind them to not rush into the venue and run over people or something like that.

[Steve W]

I was not at Champs this year but by what I see nothing has changed. We are in a what's in it for me society or I am the most important person attitude. When people, young and old, begin to see that treating others as more important than self then everybody will win. Most volunteers do so because they want to make things better for all. As time goes on and they continually get abused they will go way. If this happens at FIRST we will be in huge trouble. I guess the word that should be added to FIRST would be RESPECT. If we could get all teams to add that to their goals and all mentors to teach and demonstrate wouldn't things be a lot better?

As for yelling robot I was at a regionals and got really upset about it. I ended up yelling at a student who screamed robot from a foot behind me. I then went to the safety guys and they said that it was encouraged and promoted. What can you do? Every time I heard robot I stopped right where I was and didn't move till they went around me. Childish yes but after a while the safety guys took notice and started speaking to the teams. FIRST NEEDS to put a stop to the yelling and bring back courtesy and respect for others.

[Mr. Van]

"FIRST is about changing the culture." Unfortunately, many people believe that the culture that needs changing is the "nerds are uncool outcasts to be shunned until you need them". That change is well on its way.

The culture that needs to be changed is "my/our needs are more important than your/their needs". It is the "win at all costs" attitude that we need to be careful of - and yes, leaping over barriers, saving seats in the stands, being rude to the volunteer who is looking out for your safety are all just as bad as using an illegal motor on the robot. Many teams put a great deal of emphasis on the latter and not enough on the former.

Promoting Gracious Professionalism is a way allow for competition to happen in a culture of mutual support and respect. It is, I believe, the most important thing that FIRST needs to export and share with the greater community. It is the hardest part of what we do - but it is also the best part of what we do.

- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

[N7UJJ]

A lot of these issues seem like we sometimes forgot the manners that grandma taught us. We should be eager to offer seats, assist the elderly, young, infirmed. "Please", "thank-you", "excuse me"... the really simple stuff that lubricates social interaction. We shouldn't be courteous because we may get an award or recognition, but rather we would not want our grandma to be disappointed with our behavior and embarrass our family (or team)

Any team willing to spend the time and effort to make a video or skit about venue/pit courtesy? We all can use a reminder, I guess.

[Solidstate89]

Originally Posted by torihoelscher

I think FIRST should make an announcement during Kick Off or before the first event to remind them to not rush into the venue and run over people or something like that.

As you said yourself, that seems to have no effect on them

I think a mentor or a student leader needs to chew them out first before their behavior changes.