This Is Appalling Behavior At A FIRST Event

[MrBasse]

I wasn't there, bou can't blame an event organizer for not opening more doors to get in when there aren't enough people to watch those entrances or the facilities are set up in a way where it simply won't make sense. No matter what they changed about the door situation, everyone is still going to the same place.

This whole thing comes down to teaching patience and respect. If people wait their turn and allow others to get through a door when they are ready, there rarely is a problem and bottlenecks don't cause problems. The result is smooth traffic flow. It's the same theory that seems to work perfectly well on freeways until that one person feels that they can cut in line forcing everyone to stomp on the brakes and slowing all those behind them to stop. If everyone walks at the same speed and is courteous the process is much faster.

Oh, and doors have to open out from a commercial building. Fire codes don't like people to be trapped inside a building when there is a rush to get out (i.e. a fire). There very rarely is a problem with people rushing to get into a building. That brings up another scary thought, what if someone at or near the door had fallen? How many feel that the runners would have stopped to help that person up and make others aware? I don't even want to think of what could have happened from the descriptions I've heard here...

[Mr. Van]

Some additional thoughts...

Regarding the "Robot" yell - Teams are encouraged to do this by the UL Safety Judges. Yes, the yelling of "ROBOT!" is annoying (I usually respond with "POLO!") but that's not the problem. The problem is that some seem to believe that loudly yelling "ROBOT!" gives them the right of way - so much so that they run people over who don't clear a path. FIRST can start with the basic idea that while people are asked to clear a path for robots, people ALWAYS have the right of way. Being late for your match doesn't mean you have the right to run people over - regardless of what you yell.

Regarding saving seats - I tell my team to go into the stands and "take up space". Early on they sit apart and take up some room - indicating that we would like to have other members of our team join us throughout the day in this location. I instruct them to allow anyone to come into this space and sit for as long as they want - they can't save any seats. I also encourage them to give their seats up to "outside" spectators. As for teams that do "save" seats I suggest this conversation:
"Mind if I sit here?"
"These seats are saved for team XXX."
"Awesome! I've always wanted to be part of team XXX!"
(Sit down and ask them about their amazing team.)

I've done this several times. At one event, we ended up mixed up with another team throughout the entire section. It was awesome - Lots of new friends!

I love the idea of a video/skit about pit courtesy! What about an animation contest - like the one for safety? (A GP animation?)

Just some musings...

- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox

[Doug G]

I noticed more and more unacceptable behavior with my team these past few years, so this year I actually spent a few hours going over many of these items in this post... most notably...

1) Yelling... I made it a big point this year that our drive team and pit crew WILL NOT yell "ROBOT" at the top of their lungs, because it is turning into a "oneupsmanship" between each other and with other teams. Before you know it, its a contest who can yell ROBOT the loudest before each match. But as more and more spectators visit the pits, it's just becomes ridiculous and juvenile. Anyhow, the lessons went well and this season there was less yelling of ROBOT and more "PLEASE EXCUSE US, ROBOT COMING THROUGH..." . Then we got to the Spokane regional where a few volunteers really enjoyed yelling at the top of their lungs and wanted teams to yell some more.... Huh... Well, what can you do...

2) Seat Saving... I not only instructed my students about this BUT also my team parents and mentors. I showed them in the manual where it clearly states no saving seats. Then I explained to them as Mr. Van stated, that they can still stake out an area of the stands for the team to watch, but they are too never say "these seats are saved" or place ribbons/tape to reserve seats.

3) General Spectating behavior.. we are very excited to see our robot in action, but students and parents are instructed to sit for the majority of the match. We expect the same courtesy of those who sit in front of us. If you want to stand the whole time, go to the top of the stands. Noisemakers, like airhorns are not allowed.

4) Lines and crowds... I told them that pretend their grandparents were in front of them or next to them at all times. Take your time, don't run, watch your manners, be careful of what you say and how you say things.

If all team coaches or a team parent takes an hour or so to go over these items before each competition, I think we can right the ship a bit. I like the idea of a video illustrating these points and play it at kickoff and/or during opening ceremonies of each regional. Hmmm... gives me an idea....

[Johnnyy]

What about the idea of a robot "highway"? Organize the pits in a way that robots will merge into one aisle or path that leads to the dome (similar to the robot path from the pits to the dome) but extend it to the pits. All the robots will be restricted to traveling in designated paths. You can't yell "ROBOT" at the top of your lungs, when the people in front and behind you are both robots.

Just my two cents.

[Reanna]

Originally Posted by RoboMom

There are thousands of FIRST teams who get core values. They are even judged on it.

FLL Core Values:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4zsy...ure=plpp_video

There were also complaints about scouting teams sitting in the seats reserved for handicapped. I sent a note back to volunteer managers to see if there were extra crowd control volunteers who could remind teams why these areas were set aside. I have no idea if there was follow-up.

I thank Cat for sharing her experience. I think posts like this can help remind all of us we are one big community, and individually and as community we can raise awareness to make sure this doesn't happen again at any FIRST event.

This, so much of this.
My friend Ria was in a wheel chair because of an injury, and she was kicked out of her handicapped spot, note right behind our team, because they were scouting there. I had a graciously professional conversation with the scouter, yet she still argued that she was in the right. I actually had to 'threaten' to ask security to explain to her that handicap spots are for the handicap.
I would have gladly given up my spot in the stands for her to scout, if it meant my friend could feel like she was part of the team and part of the stands.

[Tom Line]

Dare I say that in this case, if we want a culture change, it's FIRST and more specifically FIRST HQ that needs the change?

If they were to change the manual and state very clearly that teams seen saving seats would not be in the running for the gracious professionalism award, that teams YELLING to make people move would be removed from the safety award, and that teams with lighted flashing noisemaking carts would not be allowed to bring them on the competition floor, I think the culture change would be complete by the end of 2013.

As FIRST members we're fighting a losing battle if the FIRST management is promoting some of these issues in the wrong manner.

Perhaps someone needs to be seriously hurt jumping out of the way of someone yelling 'robot' for FIRST to take notice, in the same manner that the FMS issues were brushed off until something catastrophic happened. Unfortunately that's generally the modus operandi of any overly large company. (Note: I would never wish anyone to get hurt.)

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Unicorns

This, so much of this.
I would have gladly given up my spot in the stands for her to scout, if it meant my friend could feel like she was part of the team and part of the stands.

It should never have had to come to that. The scouters were in the wrong from the outset. The space was rightfully Ria's. Period.

Jane

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Perhaps someone needs to be seriously hurt jumping out of the way of someone yelling 'robot' for FIRST to take notice, in the same manner that the FMS issues were brushed off until something catastrophic happened. Unfortunately that's generally the modus operandi of any overly large company. (Note: I would never wish anyone to get hurt.)

If someone in a wheelchair is injured because a robot runs into them or because someone jumps over them in the chair, that is going to gain FIRST a lot of bad publicity.

If someone has their cane knocked out from under them and they fall and are injured, that is going to cause FIRST a lot of bad publicity.

If teams refuse to move out of a handicapped zone, this is not good PR. If teams refuse to move out of a handicapped zone for a person who requires the use of it, this is really bad PR. I'd love for the team that did that to be recognized for their actions. Recognition is a valuable asset to FIRST and to the teams seeking it. Bad recognition can cause a world of hurt for a team. Sometimes, they deserve it.

Jane

[catsylve]

So I roll away from my computer for a few hours and come back and look what Jane is up to!

First, I'd like to say thank you my friend for being so kind and no I was not hurt, but I did find myself a bit intimidated at times. (my regular chair was in the shop and I was working with a very unwieldy scooter).

I am indeed fortunate that I can move around with a cane, but many people cannot and yes, the handicapped seating was a huge problem. At one point, I had to bring some of the students on my own team to task for taking them for scouting.

I think the part that bothered me the most though, was the yelling of robot. Students need to be taught that this was originally started as a safety measure, not a way of getting the right of way and travelling at full speed to the field. There were times it was downright scary, and not just for someone who is handicapped. ANYONE could have been mowed down and that is just not what we are about.

I would also like to say thank you though to the large number of people who did stop elevators, ask people to move, stopped traffic or volunteer to help me. Like it or not, when working with young people, we are always teaching them things they have not yet experienced.

Oh, and by the way, thank you so much to Jerry and Bill for getting me my own special "Miller Pass" so I could continue to coach my team and didn't miss every match while waiting for elevators. I will treasure it always!

[Carol]

When I was in the pits on Thursday, and I admit standing in the way in the aisle, a student did say - politely and not too loudly - "watch out, robot coming through". This is the way it should be done, to alert people like me who are legitimately in the way. (But I was wearing a B&W striped shirt and students are more nicer to me when I do )

In general I think FIRST people are more polite on the whole than the general public. I've been at many events where the staff remarked how the students are better behaved than at other events - most recently at Temple for the MAR Champs. But, as mentioned already, this is indicative of society in general which is ruder and more egotistic than in the past - do you ever read blogs other than CD? The attitudes and language are appalling.

But maybe I'm just a cranky old woman.

[DampRobot]

Although we all like to think that FIRST is special in regard to the standard it holds its participants to, it really isn't. Almost all sports and activities support respect, service, responsibility, etc. in varying degrees. The only special thing in FIRST is what we call it: Gracious Profesionalism and Coopertition.

The simple fact is that the behavior described on this thread is not acceptable anywhere.

I suppose what a lot of people are referencing is the "good old days" when "everyone" understood how to behave at an event. Because of the rapid growth of the FIRST community (and Chief Delphi), the original feel of an exclusive organisation is lost and replaced by a more mainstream feel. FRC is no longer a handful of teams and students who deeply care about growing FIRST and its high standards. There are simply too many people not to have a few who don't represent FIRST positively.

Is this behavior acceptable? Of course not. Is it understandable, given the growth FIRST has experienced? I think so.

[techhelpbb]

These problems extend into the intellectual world as well. Combative intellectualism is not often productive or functional. Usually all that ends up happening is one intelligent person degrades the other and everyone is the worse for it (everyone makes errors, poke fun, have a little laugh and move on or the error you are making is forgetting the value of your sparing partner...that's not so funny). No physical competition or contact is required.

Combative intellectualism is all over the Internet and between the physical awkwardness of the competition, the demands on time, the sometimes unclear directions. It's little surprise this sort of impolite behavior exists.

The idea of high speed texting, brief, sometimes ambiguous messages on complicated subjects only magnifies the problem. Sure it does help compensate for inadequate interfaces for communications but in the end it cheapens the message by not giving it the authority or longevity sometimes the message deserves. The bigger and more important the message is, the more likely the issue that the message won't leave the desired original impact as it moves out to the fringes of your community hidden behind search engines of various functionality and differences of context.

We all just need to remember as the world gets 'smaller' the good and the harm we can do gets bigger. Sometimes we can't help that, so we should work extra hard when we can help it.

[WebHz]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Completely agreed, one of my biggest peeves. The entire season, when someone yelled "Robot" I would yell back "Human" and stand my ground. If they made eye contact, I would explain that Humans have priority over Robots, and if they would just say "Excuse me please" I'd move.

Best was the girl in Team 2557's pit in Archimedes who would yell "Robot" loudly any time she SAW a robot. ANY robot. From her seat in the pit.


Back to the original post: Those folks would be well-served by spending 2 days in a wheelchair. It is a real eye-opener.

I'm sorry that you feel our team has done something wrong, please understand... we meant absolutely no offense by it whatsoever. The regional that we came from, the Olympic regional in Washington State, instructed us to use this method as a crowd clearer.

Things are a might bit different in St. Louis than on the west coast. And we will attempt to implement the suggested changes should we make it to finals next year.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[nsrouji95]

Such behavior is absolutely shocking to me. I can't believe that some people who be so ignorant as to do that.

I really hope that those people who did that see this thread, because it is simply unacceptable. I hope that something like this does not happen again to Cat or to anyone.

Gracious professionalism and understanding should be shown on and off the field at competitions and anywhere else. In no situation is it acceptable for FIRST values to be simply ignored for any moment in time.

[Wayne Doenges]

One thing that would help the crowding of the aisles would be to not stand in them when you are talking to others. I lost count of how many times I had to go around a group of people (students and adults alike) who were standing in the middle of the aisle and just talking. If you need to stop, move over to the side and let people by.
Also, why does the WHOLE team need to be at the pit. If you don't need to be there move somewhere else.

Thank you

This has been a Public Service Announcement

* I will now quiently move over to the side and let people pass *