2012 Lessons Learned:The Negative

[Gray Adams]

Originally Posted by mcb

I was my team's representative for the alliance selections on Galileo. I'm not sure if it it was like this on the other fields as well, but none of us could hear or see a single thing that was going on during the selections due to our position on the floor. At regionals, the representatives are typically facing the field with their backs to the stands. On Galileo, it looked like drive coaches were along that wall? Not sure. Anyway, I understand that there's 100 students in this group, but it would be nice to know what's happening on the field, what round of selections is occurring, and what alliance you're on before you start walking out there.

Curie had representatives curving from the side of the field all around the back, but everyone could see the screen if they turned, and everyone was facing the field.

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Cory

FIRST explained that the low cost bridge would not function properly without weight being added. They had a video showing that two batteries needed to be a certain distance from the edge for it to function as a competition bridge would.

They explained it in a video that was neither called out in the rules or the practice field prints.

I had absolutely no idea the bridges were that different until the videos got posted here are on Chief Delphi. This is one of those things that should have gone out in an email blast (or something). Things should NOT be left to chance.... especially when it seems like a big portion of that is "did he happen to click the right link on the right page to end up in the right place to see a video that doesn't appear to be critical but ends up being critical.....

It's notoriously hard to find things on the FIRST site. That's why so many people get so much information through Chief Delphi. I'm on both sites daily during the build season, and I still miss things. I'm not surprised many teams got bit on the butt by this one.

Luckily, in most cases you could count on someone on your alliance to be able to put down the bridge.

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

They explained it in a video that was neither called out in the rules or the practice field prints.

I had absolutely no idea the bridges were that different until the videos got posted here are on Chief Delphi. This is one of those things that should have gone out in an email blast (or something). Things should NOT be left to chance.... especially when it seems like a big portion of that is "did he happen to click the right link on the right page to end up in the right place to see a video that doesn't appear to be critical but ends up being critical.....

It's notoriously hard to find things on the FIRST site. That's why so many people get so much information through Chief Delphi. I'm on both sites daily during the build season, and I still miss things. I'm not surprised many teams got bit on the butt by this one.

Luckily, in most cases you could count on someone on your alliance to be able to put down the bridge.

It was either shown at kickoff or the videos were called out during the kickoff if I remember correctly.

[Dad1279]

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...ated-documents

The links to the videos are right on the Competition Manual Page, right below the link to the Field Drawings.

[Craig Roys]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Of course there's multiple ways to look at the negatives. You can rudely complain and not offer solutions. Or you can produce constructive criticisms that take us towards improvements and solutions. From what I've seen in this thread, it's definitely more of the latter.

I completely agree, and realized that I offered no solutions to my complaint about ball placement on the center bridge. My intent wasn't just to gripe, and it certainly was not meant as an attack on the officials and field reset personnel although it may have seemed that way - my apologies.

While I believe that the GDC did a tremendous job this year in creating a game, they were a little too ambiguous in certain areas - one of them being ball placement. The officials and field reset personnel should not have to make any decisions about game piece placement - it should be very clear from the game manual (this year it was not). I think the game manual needs to be very specific about location of game pieces at the start of a match - especially those that may be in play during the autonomous period. Are the pieces randomly located or put in specific places? If in specific places, it should be made very clear - if 2 balls on the center bridge, they go in these places; if 3 balls, they go in these places; if 4 balls...etc. If randomly located, is this done before or after the robots are set on the field? Also, if randomly located, be specific about how they are randomly determined - computer program, roll of the dice, etc. This randomization should also be available for the teams on the field to see - this would avoid any arguments.

The majority of the game manual for this year I would put as a positive - I thought it was very well done; however, ball placement at the start could have been made more clear.

[pfreivald]

Yeah, the field tour videos are part of the manual on the website. We didn't calibrate our bridge full time, we just added weights to test the manipulator -- and while we were at it, we added more than was necessary to make sure we were a bit over-engineered on the manipulator side of things. Balancing on the uncalibrated bridge was harder than on the actual bridge, so that was actually useful for training purposes!

[Koko Ed]

Gotta do my duty and point out the defieincies with suggestions.

1. Kinect: More trouble than it's worth.

SUGGESTION: If FIRST is going to tack on some game element due to a big sponsor offering up a big endorsement make it worth teams while to use it (like givng extra points for scoring using it). If they have no incentive then they are going to do what they did this year and simply not use it. The only thing it really did was cause replays.

2. FMS issues.
SUGGESTION: Obviously further testing is needed. Maybe additional week zero events would help.

Animation Competition. 75 out of 2300 teams participated. The contest is irrelevant. What does a dopey little alien have to do with what FIRST teams are doing? No wonder so many teams don't bother with it.


SUGGESTION: Why not combine the animation, CAD work and video work to create reveal videos and judge them for awards? At least it would cause more teams to use the program more often than they do now.


FOR WEEK 1 ALAMO:
The event is a bit too ambitious for it's own good.
SUGGESTION: Perfect running the FRC aspect and then start to tackle FTC and FLL all at once.

Crowd control issues. Too many kids kept wandering down onto the field area repeatedly.

SUGGESTION: Partly my fault and Jess offered a suggestion the will keep that from happening again. There needs to be serious consequences for going down into the field area just like in other sports (wander onto a basketball court or football field in the middle of a game and see what happens to you). You are disrupting the event when you do that.

Walk in volunteers would just disappear at the end of their work shift without so much as a word and leave us in quite a bind.

SUGGESTION: Walk in volunteers need their own co-0rdinator to work with Jess (she has enough to do) so they can better handle their comings and going and let us know when it's time to go home so we can properly adjust to their absence.



FOR WEEK 2 FLR:
There was alot of space in the pit area but the pits still seemed all squished together.

SUGGESTION: Perhap spreading them out a little bit more wouldn't hurt.



FOR WEEK 3 MONTREAL:
The seating was ill concived (960 seats are no where near enough for a FIRST event. even a small one.
The queing entrance and the main entrance for the audience criss crossed causing a bottleneck and a safety hazard.
SUGGESTION: The only solution would most likely be going to a new venue.

Volunteering was a bit undermanned. More crowd control was needed badly (I must have turned away 500 people that weekend from coming into the field).

SUGGESTION: Just be mindful of the needs of crowd control.

FOR WEEK 4 BOSTON:
I know VIPs are important and bring alot of money and even attention to the event but they need to be better controlled. Too often they get in the way and disobey event rules (if the participants have to wear proper shoes and safety glasses why can't they. Is it too much to contact them and instruct them what they should and should not wear to the event?).

SUGGESTION: Have FIRST design a booklet to give to VIPs on what to do at the events including proper attire so there will be no problems.

Killer stairs. It just seems like the climb to the top of the Agganis Arena is significantly higher than any other arena I've seen. You need mountain climbing equipment to get to the top.

SUGGESTION: Honestly I have no idea how to make this one better.

Parking. If Angry Eric didn't rate a parking pass then who did?

SUGGESTION: Let volunteers know ahead of time if they have or have not gotten the free pass and how much they will have to pay to go to the event so paying out of pocket won't be such a shock to them.

FOR WEEK 5 DC:
Load in.Rather jumbled and kind of dangerous.

SUGGESTION: Have more control down on the street. Too many teams seemed to be scrambling up to the docks and practically climbing over each other to drop the robot and stuff off.

Allowing teams to go back to their pit during elims. The pits were spread out far and wide and a couple of teams nearly missed their match.

SUGGESTION: Keep them by the field and just have a courier bring them batteries.


FOR WEEK 6 QUEEN CITY:

Outcast Pit. Many of the teams had no idea what was going on in the arena.

SUGGESTION: Find a way to wire in video and standing back there so they don't feel so isolated.

Volunteer Room was really far away. The room was nice but no way I was climbing four stories to get food. Thank God the elevator worked.

SUGGESTION: Is there a closer room available?




FOR WEEK 7 MSC:
The food. Particularly breakfast. A bagel just isn't going to cut it.

SUGGESTION: Could a better variety be offered? Just a couple more options would be nice.

The crazy pit structure. I know FiM is loyal to the arena but man o man is it hard to get used to teams being so spread out like that.

SUGGESTION: It would be so cool if MSC could go to an big stage where such an event as spectacular as it could really shine like Ford Field but I know that really isn't possible. I guess the pit issue is just something to deal with.

FOR THE CHAMPS:
The tunnel leading up to the arena has too much traffic causing teams to struggle to make their matches.

SUGGESTION: A separate passage to FTC team may have helped ease the congestion a little bit.

The Hall of Fame. It's a joke. Period. I feel badly for 359 who worked long and hard to get to the HOF and all they get is a little table to show for it. FIRST keeps saying the Chairman's Award is it's highest honor but they sure don't treat it that way.

SUGGESTION: Let the Hall of Fame teams run it. Many of these teams run off season events and even regionals. I bet a committee from each of these teams could come up with something that would bring honor to the Hall of Fame.

Scary weather. Two years in St. Louis. Two years severe weather has threatened the event.

SUGGESTION: Uhmmm..is the Georgia Dome still available....?

[rocknthehawk]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

The Hall of Fame. It's a joke. Period. I feel badly for 359 who worked long and hard to get to the HOF and all they get is a little table to show for it. FIRST keeps saying the Chairman's Award is it's highest honor but they sure don't treat it that way.

SUGGESTION: Let the Hall of Fame teams run it. Many of these teams run off season events and even regionals. I bet a committee from each of these teams could come up with something that would bring honor to the Hall of Fame.

This x1000

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Gotta do my duty and point out the defieincies with suggestions.

1. Kinect: More trouble than it's worth.

SUGGESTION: If FIRST is going to tack on some game element due to a big sponsor offering up a big endorsement make it worth teams while to use it (like givng extra points for scoring using it). If they have no incentive then they are going to do what they did this year and simply not use it. The only thing it really did was cause replays.

2. FMS issues.
SUGGESTION: Obviously further testing is needed. Maybe additional week zero events would help.

Animation Competition. 75 out of 2300 teams participated. The contest is irrelevant. What does a dopey little alien have to do with what FIRST teams are doing? No wonder so many teams don't bother with it.


SUGGESTION: Why not combine the animation, CAD work and video work to create reveal videos and judge them for awards? At least it would cause more teams to use the program more often than they do now.


FOR WEEK 1 ALAMO:
The event is a bit too ambitious for it's own good.
SUGGESTION: Perfect running the FRC aspect and then start to tackle FTC and FLL all at once.

Crowd control issues. Too many kids kept wandering down onto the field area repeatedly.

SUGGESTION: Partly my fault and Jess offered a suggestion the will keep that from happening again. There needs to be serious consequences for going down into the field area just like in other sports (wander onto a basketball court or football field in the middle of a game and see what happens to you). You are disrupting the event when you do that.

Walk in volunteers would just disappear at the end of their work shift without so much as a word and leave us in quite a bind.

SUGGESTION: Walk in volunteers need their own co-0rdinator to work with Jess (she has enough to do) so they can better handle their comings and going and let us know when it's time to go home so we can properly adjust to their absence.



FOR WEEK 2 FLR:
There was alot of space in the pit area but the pits still seemed all squished together.

SUGGESTION: Perhap spreading them out a little bit more wouldn't hurt.



FOR WEEK 3 MONTREAL:
The seating was ill concived (960 seats are no where near enough for a FIRST event. even a small one.
The queing entrance and the main entrance for the audience criss crossed causing a bottleneck and a safety hazard.
SUGGESTION: The only solution would most likely be going to a new venue.

Volunteering was a bit undermanned. More crowd control was needed badly (I must have turned away 500 people that weekend from coming into the field).

SUGGESTION: Just be mindful of the needs of crowd control.

FOR WEEK 4 BOSTON:
I know VIPs are important and bring alot of money and even attention to the event but they need to be better controlled. Too often they get in the way and disobey event rules (if the participants have to wear proper shoes and safety glasses why can't they. Is it too much to contact them and instruct them what they should and should not wear to the event?).

SUGGESTION: Have FIRST design a booklet to give to VIPs on what to do at the events including proper attire so there will be no problems.

Killer stairs. It just seems like the climb to the top of the Agganis Arena is significantly higher than any other arena I've seen. You need mountain climbing equipment to get to the top.

SUGGESTION: Honestly I have no idea how to make this one better.

Parking. If Angry Eric didn't rate a parking pass then who did?

SUGGESTION: Let volunteers know ahead of time if they have or have not gotten the free pass and how much they will have to pay to go to the event so paying out of pocket won't be such a shock to them.

FOR WEEK 5 DC:
Load in.Rather jumbled and kind of dangerous.

SUGGESTION: Have more control down on the street. Too many teams seemed to be scrambling up to the docks and practically climbing over each other to drop the robot and stuff off.

Allowing teams to go back to their pit during elims. The pits were spread out far and wide and a couple of teams nearly missed their match.

SUGGESTION: Keep them by the field and just have a courier bring them batteries.


FOR WEEK 6 QUEEN CITY:

Outcast Pit. Many of the teams had no idea what was going on in the arena.

SUGGESTION: Find a way to wire in video and standing back there so they don't feel so isolated.

Volunteer Room was really far away. The room was nice but no way I was climbing four stories to get food. Thank God the elevator worked.

SUGGESTION: Is there a closer room available?




FOR WEEK 7 MSC:
The food. Particularly breakfast. A bagel just isn't going to cut it.

SUGGESTION: Could a better variety be offered? Just a couple more options would be nice.

The crazy pit structure. I know FiM is loyal to the arena but man o man is it hard to get used to teams being so spread out like that.

SUGGESTION: It would be so cool if MSC could go to an big stage where such an event as spectacular as it could really shine like Ford Field but I know that really isn't possible. I guess the pit issue is just something to deal with.

FOR THE CHAMPS:
The tunnel leading up to the arena has too much traffic causing teams to struggle to make their matches.

SUGGESTION: A separate passage to FTC team may have helped ease the congestion a little bit.

The Hall of Fame. It's a joke. Period. I feel badly for 359 who worked long and hard to get to the HOF and all they get is a little table to show for it. FIRST keeps saying the Chairman's Award is it's highest honor but they sure don't treat it that way.

SUGGESTION: Let the Hall of Fame teams run it. Many of these teams run off season events and even regionals. I bet a committee from each of these teams could come up with something that would bring honor to the Hall of Fame.

Scary weather. Two years in St. Louis. Two years severe weather has threatened the event.

SUGGESTION: Uhmmm..is the Georgia Dome still available....?

I dont really care for spending too much time complaining about the negatives, as we are still very humbled by winning the award in 2011.
I will say this though.
No one from FIRST contacted me at any point during the season about the change in the HOF setup.
Here we spent the last several months planning and creating a booth space, including lugging it all at VEX Worlds the week before, only to find out from Cory (Team 254) here on CD the day before CMP that we get a little table.

Why even have a main contact in TIMS?

And I will say this again...if FIRST values the CMP CA as its highest award, and given the opportunity to decide who gets to go to the White House to celebrate the meaning of FIRST, they shoot us down.
The worst feeling was getting phone calls from some very respectable people in FIRST while they were in DC asking where we were staying? My response, "Uh? You guys are visiting who? When?"
Our congressional representative did some investigating for us in DC and gave us some interesting info that I dont ever care to share here on CD.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Gotta do my duty and point out the defieincies with suggestions.

FOR WEEK 7 MSC:
The food. Particularly breakfast. A bagel just isn't going to cut it.

SUGGESTION: Could a better variety be offered? Just a couple more options would be nice.

The crazy pit structure. I know FiM is loyal to the arena but man o man is it hard to get used to teams being so spread out like that.

SUGGESTION: It would be so cool if MSC could go to an big stage where such an event as spectacular as it could really shine like Ford Field but I know that really isn't possible. I guess the pit issue is just something to deal with.

Noted! And feedback is appreciated.
I personally agree about the food, and while it is currently a budget issue, perhaps we can figure something else out for next year.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Gotta do my duty and point out the defieincies with suggestions.

Scary weather. Two years in St. Louis. Two years severe weather has threatened the event.

SUGGESTION: Uhmmm..is the Georgia Dome still available....?

I seem to remember bad weather in Atlanta too... At least something caused all those broken windows and damage back a few years ago... let me see,,, Yes it was a tornado ....I remember several teams got displaced from their hotels...

I don't think anywhere we go would be immune to weather conditions in April... or the possibility of earthquake or whatever...

[Hjelstrom]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

I seem to remember bad weather in Atlanta too... At least something caused all those broken windows and damage back a few years ago... let me see,,, Yes it was a tornado ....I remember several teams got displaced from their hotels...

I don't think anywhere we go would be immune to weather conditions in April... or the possibility of earthquake or whatever...

Hey, Vegas has terrific weather in April!

[Thad House]

Originally Posted by Hjelstrom

Hey, Vegas has terrific weather in April!

I second that vote. Or bring it up to the PNW. There might end up being rain, but nothing more then that.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by sst.thad

I second that vote. Or bring it up to the PNW. There might end up being rain, but nothing more then that.

Just remember the size of the venue necessary...
You need something like the Georgia Dome
or the Edwards Jones Dome in St. Louis to have the space.
Or Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis

If there is something like this in Vegas I am all for it...I don't think Seattle has anything big enough... or Portland...
The Seahawk stadium is outside... no pro football in Portland...

The size of the venue is really restricting...

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

The Seahawk stadium is outside...

That will be a problem for a lot of places known for nicer weather!