2012 Texas Robot Roundup

[lynca]

Originally Posted by Michael Blake

I went and checked the original flier and there's NOTHING stated about NO PRACTICE BOT entries... and we made plans around this event and we take our plans/commitments to the students seriously... and this will put us out from what we intended...

Michael , I'm glad you are discussing this issue on Chief Delphi instead of through email. A public forum can bring many different viewpoints to the conversation.

If your team is thinking about helping a team in San Antonio. I would suggest that your team bring in members from other teams to help work on the 2nd robot. You don't need an official FRC number to participate in TRR,

Shadetree Mechanics 3999 were a pre-rookie team last year that gained tremendously by participating in TRR before their 1st official season of FRC.

[Mr.Frishman]

I have to agree. 3999 was a pre-rookie team last year and we got the opportunity to compete in the TRR with the help of teams 2158 and Purple Haze(LASA). The off-season is a great way for teams to get a head start on the coming season. Jess and Patrick do an excellent job of running the event and I believe they would allow as many teams and bots as possible if they could.

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by Mr.Frishman

Jess and Patrick do an excellent job of running the event and I believe they would allow as many teams and bots as possible if they could.

I agree... Jess and Patrick do an _excellent_ job on TRR... and everything else they're involved in!!

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by lynca

Michael , I'm glad you are discussing this issue on Chief Delphi instead of through email. A public forum can bring many different viewpoints to the conversation.

If your team is thinking about helping a team in San Antonio. I would suggest that your team bring in members from other teams to help work on the 2nd robot. You don't need an official FRC number to participate in TRR,

Shadetree Mechanics 3999 were a pre-rookie team last year that gained tremendously by participating in TRR before their 1st official season of FRC.

Andrew, that may work as a compromise and is actually a good suggestion... blend our non-Drive Team students with pre-Rookies and we'll "show them the ropes" through pit work and competition steps... while fulfilling the promise to our hard working team students that they can get a chance to drive/operate the practice bot on the field... I LIKE!

My only request would be that the two pits be next to each other for obvious reasons as we only have one-set of tools/equipment...

I'll ask Jess to set us up with a pre-Rookie team... THANKS!

[Michael Blake]

Jess, have any pre-Rookie teams registered yet?

We'd be happy to assist one or more teams with experiencing an FRC competition using our practice bot as long as they don't have an expectation of driving/operating it in matches and we can have two pits next to each other...

We can rotate pre-Rookie team students as "Human Player" to get them in the queue and on the field...

Will this work? Is this a good thing?

[Mr.Frishman]

2158 loaned us the parts for a rolling chassis last year. We also were able to have a build day in their lab. Members of their team, as well as some team members from LASA came out to help get the chassis ready to roll. We did the rest. I am in full support of any team helping out a pre-rookie. The bot we used at TRR had a shower curtain rod for an arm. It was ugly but it worked. We want to give as many of our students the chance to drive and will do so at TRR,but I dont think that a team can get the full experience if they do not get out on the field.

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by Mr.Frishman

...but I dont think that a team can get the full experience if they do not get out on the field.

Please read my EDIT to the above post... do you think that'll work as a good experience for some pre-Rookies?

[JaneYoung]

The point of providing a practice robot for a pre-rookie team at a competition event is for the pre-rookies to have the full experience of competition.

The teams that donate their robots and help to support the pre-rookies efforts are very generous in helping to grow FIRST in the region and in helping the pre-rookie team to have a positive experience at the event. It is a win/win for both teams to be a part of that experience.

Jane

[Mr.Frishman]

If teams can go the Championships with a kit bot and compete than I think that a pre-rookie team will get a much better experience if they can get something on the field. We all know that there will be teams that have robots that aren't competitive but they still show up. Being on an alliance with veteran teams and going through the competition was invaluable to us, even though some of our students had been through it before.

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

The point of providing a practice robot for a pre-rookie team at a competition event is for the pre-rookies to have the full experience of competition.

The teams that donate their robots and help to support the pre-rookies efforts are very generous in helping to grow FIRST in the region and in helping the pre-rookie team to have a positive experience at the event. It is a win/win for both teams to be a part of that experience.

Jane

Jane, is 418 "donating" their 2012 practice bot to a pre-Rookie Texas team?

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Mr.Frishman

If teams can go the Championships with a kit bot and compete than I think that a pre-rookie team will get a much better experience if they can get something on the field. We all know that there will be teams that have robots that aren't competitive but they still show up. Being on an alliance with veteran teams and going through the competition was invaluable to us, even though some of our students had been through it before.

-This- is one of the reasons why off seasons like TRR are so valuable and so needed in FRC. Not just for the pre-rookies but for the teams who can improve in the competitive side of things. It's also the appropriate place for the strong veteran teams to identify the region's strengths and weaknesses, the teams that could use some support, and the sustainability dynamics that are in motion.

I have another opinion. This one has to do with one of our weaknesses in Texas, as a whole. Teams too often only think about their own advancement and their own rate of success. They don't take the time or create the opportunity to look around them and see how the advantages of networking and supporting each other, strengthen the entire region. For teams who value IRI and want to be those teams who participate... take a look at their programs and what they bring, not only to their teams, but to their regions. Look at the other off seasons that have been around a while and you'll see much of the same thing. They've been busy as teams building the community of teams that compete at events.

Edit: Michael, we've never gotten to the point that we build a practice 'bot, sad to say. We donate what resources we have and can offer. That can be in the way of skills needed, materials, expertise, friendliness, and.. if we have it, we will help. But, unless something changes that I'm not aware of at this point, we won't have a practice 'bot to donate or loan. Loan is the better word, maybe.

Also, please keep in mind... in our area, pre-rookies are a treasure. The Shadetree Mechanics were a gift to all of the veteran teams, teaching us the value of the pre-rookie experience. I'd love to be able to say that we're going to have more pre-rookies at the 2012 TRR but it's not something that we can take for granted. And the Shadetree Mechanics were amazing because they did want to do so much, themselves, and attend TRR, ready to play.

Jane

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by Mr.Frishman

If teams can go the Championships with a kit bot and compete than I think that a pre-rookie team will get a much better experience if they can get something on the field. We all know that there will be teams that have robots that aren't competitive but they still show up. Being on an alliance with veteran teams and going through the competition was invaluable to us, even though some of our students had been through it before.

AGREED... much better experience if they have _their own_ running bot...

We'd LOVE to help _any_ FRC pre-Rookie team build a "kit-bot" to compete at TRR... I hope we get asked to do this...

We pretty much did this in one day at Dallas-East with a Rookie team and it contributed to our winning EI award there... we also had a student win Dean's List at Alamo based on the strength of 3 season's aiding Rookie and struggling FTC teams and starting a team for disabled-teens...

We were FRC "pre-Rookie" just 17 months ago... and two weeks ago we were 3 matches from Einstein... and it's no secret that we owe our successes to 148 Robowranglers who took us under their wing and greatly affected/enabled our team to dream big and realize goals...

We'd LOVE to try to do the same for an FRC Rookie team... but, we have to get the call/email requesting help first...

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

I have another opinion. This one has to do with one of our weaknesses in Texas, as a whole. Teams too often only think about their own advancement and their own rate of success. They don't take the time or create the opportunity to look around them and see how the advantages of networking and supporting each other, strengthen the entire region. For teams who value IRI and want to be those teams who participate...

Jane, that's not been our experience with 148... and to a lesser extent 1477 Texas Torque who has been very helpful to us at key moments when we needed it...

Texas teams, new and veteran, who are truly not "posers"... meaning they exude the desire to iterate to excellence in competition robotics... need only to _ask_ the teams we know you're referencing and the help/aid will be there... I KNOW this to be a fact.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Michael Blake

Jane, that's not been our experience with 148... and to a lesser extent 1477 Texas Torque who has been very helpful to us at key moments when we needed it...

Texas teams, new and veteran, who are truly not "posers"... meaning they exude the desire to iterate to excellence in competition robotics... need only to _ask_ the teams we know you're referencing and the help/aid will be there... I KNOW this to be a fact.

I'm not referencing any teams. I'm referencing our state, Michael. Teams like 1477, 3847, 118, 1587, 57, and, to an extent, 148.. are making strides in helping to strengthen our region by reaching out and helping other teams. But the teams who are helping to build a sustainable community/region need to be in the majority, not the small minority. Texas is huge and we have a lot on our plate. If and when we do go to the District Model, teams need to be prepared to volunteer, assist, support, and help each other adapt to the big changes. You have to think today, tomorrow, 3 years from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now - in order to help sustain your team and your region.

A word to the wise, sir... don't twist my words or try to turn them into something they are not.

Jane

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

Edit: I don't know the answer to the question about practice 'bots. From the off seasons that I've traveled to and volunteered at, I'm not familiar with their use other than to be provided to pre-rookie teams.
Jane

For the 09 and onward offseason events, 973 has competed with 2-3 robots at every event (aside from IRI). Sometimes there is a pre-rookie to try it out and get some experience, sometimes there isn't; but we've never been told we can't compete with them. Most of these events are hurting for teams (usually only about 15-20 attend), so there is never a competition for space.