2012 Texas Robot Roundup

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

For the 09 and onward offseason events, 973 has competed with 2-3 robots at every event (aside from IRI). Sometimes there is a pre-rookie to try it out and get some experience, sometimes there isn't; but we've never been told we can't compete with them. Most of these events are hurting for teams (usually only about 15-20 attend), so there is never a competition for space.

Thanks, Adam.

Jane

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

For the 09 and onward offseason events, 973 has competed with 2-3 robots at every event (aside from IRI). Sometimes there is a pre-rookie to try it out and get some experience, sometimes there isn't; but we've never been told we can't compete with them. Most of these events are hurting for teams (usually only about 15-20 attend), so there is never a competition for space.

THAT'S what I thought, Adam... THANKS for weighing-in !!

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Michael Blake

THAT'S what I thought, Adam... THANKS for weighing-in !!

But.. as Jess has stated early on in this discussion - this is not the problem that TRR has and it is also not the vision. She is quite serious when she says that TRR is setting itself up to be the next IRI. When you go to IRI, talk to the teams about how they manage their drive teams and what they do there. I'd have to go back through some older threads but I think there are teams that field new drive teams and they switch them out, sometimes, so that team members can have access to the experience. Teams can correct me with that but, again, that is an option available to your team at TRR.

Jane

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

But.. as Jess has stated early on in this discussion - this is not the problem that TRR has and it is also not the vision. She is quite serious when she says that TRR is setting itself up to be the next IRI. When you go to IRI, talk to the teams about how they manage their drive teams and what they do there. I'd have to go back through some older threads but I think there are teams that field new drive teams and they switch them out, sometimes, so that team members can have access to the experience. Teams can correct me with that but, again, that is an option available to your team at TRR.

Jane

I think it's FANTASTIC that Jess and Patrick want TRR to become another "IRI" and we'll FULLY support that how we can...

Its not my area of expertise as to how you achieve "IRI" legend-status as an off-season event, but, I do know that you can't refer to yourself as a "powerhouse" FRC team _unless_ a good amount of _others_ from the outside do it first... and I think the same rule may apply to TRR... SO, what do you do in the meantime? I think you conduct yourself to accommodate ALL the different _modes_ the teams (WHO WANT TO go to the trouble/expense of attending your event) want to use.

JUST my humble opinion... ;-)

ALSO, we don't have the option of rotating inexperienced students on our comp bot Drive Team... we're on a mission... we got a taste of CMP's elims and we "smelled" Einstein... ;-) HOPE I didn't just "jinx" ourselves... 8-i

[Ravage457]

The off season event is a great way to give other drive team experince, just like miss Janeyoung said, but is also a good way for the season driver, to get experince in managing the team, plus for them to see what the team coach goes through at regionals, when they have to make hard decisions, and to guide the newer drive team on what they can and cant do out on the field

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

For teams who value IRI and want to be those teams who participate... take a look at their programs and what they bring, not only to their teams, but to their regions.

Jane, you said "I'm not referencing any teams. I'm referencing our state..."

But, I saw the quote above in your previous post which referenced specifically teams "who value IRI"... and, we all know the Texas teams who regularly go to IRI, have applied this season to IRI, and who aspire (like us) to go in future seasons... if you didn't mean to reference "any teams", I don't know why you put the IRI aspirational reference in?! Maybe I'm reading the original post wrong...

I'll factor in your clarification into my thinking on this...

As for "A word to the wise, sir... don't twist my words or try to turn them into something they are not. Jane"

I think that's a little over the top...

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Michael Blake

Jane, you said "I'm not referencing any teams. I'm referencing our state..."

But, I saw the quote above in your previous post which referenced specifically teams "who value IRI"... and, we all know the Texas teams who regularly go to IRI, have applied this season to IRI, and who aspire (like us) to go in future seasons... if you didn't mean to reference "any teams", I don't know why you put the IRI aspirational reference in?! Maybe I'm reading the original post wrong...

I'll factor in your clarification into my thinking on this...

As for "A word to the wise, sir... don't twist my words or try to turn them into something they are not. Jane"

I think that's a little over the top...

Many many teams aspire to attend IRI, Michael. I'm addressing them, not the ones who already qualify. If you read my posts, you will see that I consistently reach out to the teams who aspire to be better, to dream, to create opportunities for themselves to achieve those dreams. There will be 72 teams chosen for IRI with some alternates reserved for any that drop out during the process. How many FRC teams are there world-wide, Michael? How many FRC teams are there in Texas? How many of those Texas teams who have applied but could potentially not be accepted - still aspire to attend and compete?

Look at the bigger picture. You want to achieve your goals for your team. That is what this discussion has been about. Only your goals for your team: Einstein. Nothing wrong with that. However, I've attempted to open the discussion up to a few broader goals and insights. So have the other posters who have contributed to this discussion regarding the value of off seasons for everyone.

Jane

[JVN]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

Look at the bigger picture. You want to achieve your goals for your team. That is what this discussion has been about. Only your goals for your team: Einstein. Nothing wrong with that. However, I've attempted to open the discussion up to a few broader goals and insights.

Isn't a system where INDIVIDUAL teams are encouraged to achieve their goals for team betterment by definition a system where ANY team can achieve their goals? Or does it just depend on what the goal is?

Let's hypothetically say we can rank all the teams within FIRST using a "strength ranking" from 1 to 10. I won't quantify this ranking (that is a longer discussion) but I'm not just talking about "on field" successes.

It seems to me... there is emphasis within the community to advance teams from skill level 1 to 2, 2 to 3... but no one seems to care if they advance beyond about level 5 (especially those who are more interested in starting more and more and more and more level 1 teams).

Sorry for the somewhat off-topic post, but this is related to something I've been meditating on.

I guess I'm surprised to hear that the event is already full enough that 3481's request has been denied. Good for TRR! I hope that is the case, and the event managers just "aren't here to help 5's become 6's." Though, that is their prerogative.

-John

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by JVN

Isn't a system where INDIVIDUAL teams are encouraged to achieve their goals for team betterment by definition a system where ANY team can achieve their goals? Or does it just depend on what the goal is?

Let's hypothetically say we can rank all the teams within FIRST using a "strength ranking" from 1 to 10. I won't quantify this ranking (that is a longer discussion) but I'm not just talking about "on field" successes.

It seems to me... there is emphasis within the community to advance teams from skill level 1 to 2, 2 to 3... but no one seems to care if they advance beyond about level 5 (especially those who are more interested in starting more and more and more and more level 1 teams).

Sorry for the somewhat off-topic post, but this is related to something I've been meditating on.

I guess I'm surprised to hear that the event is already full enough that 3481's request has been denied. Good for TRR! I hope that is the case, and the event managers just "aren't here to help 5's become 6's." Though, that is their prerogative.

-John

John,

Thanks for posting. This could be a good topic for a separate thread. How to get from 1 to 3, 3 to 5, and 5 to 10. What's the formula? Is there a formula? Can a team skip over some of the ranking steps?

Individual teams can achieve that, certainly. Regions have a harder time, especially when the regionals/Regionals are focused on the lower rankings because of the realities of the situation.

Before TRR began last season, how many years had it been since we've had an off season in Texas? Why did the off season stop? Why don't we have more off season events in Texas?

What's wrong with the event planners establishing the registration process in the manner that they see fit or that they envision? They are the ones who stepped up to fill the need for an off season in Texas and the use of practice 'bots as a second robot for a team is not a part of their plan this year.

I think your topic is a good one but I think TRR has the right to be the way it is, as decided by the event planning committee. One that I'm not a member of but that I try to support. (Please, don't anyone read anything into that statement and say I'm accusing them of not supporting TRR. That's not what I'm saying. But... I am saying that they set the rules, registration requirements, and process, and I'll support that and make my suggestions for future TRRs in the survey that will follow the event.)

To add, I think we've all heard enough from me. I'll try to stay off this thread and out of the discussion. Thanks for your patience.

Jane

[JVN]

Originally Posted by JVN

It seems to me... there is emphasis within the community to advance teams from skill level 1 to 2, 2 to 3... but no one seems to care if they advance beyond about level 5.*

Before someone beats me to it.
* - Unless you're from Michigan.

[steverk]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

John,

Thanks for posting. This could be a good topic for a separate thread. How to get from 1 to 3, 3 to 5, and 5 to 10. What's the formula? Is there a formula? Can a team skip over some of the ranking steps?

Individual teams can achieve that, certainly. Regions have a harder time, especially when the regionals/Regionals are focused on the lower rankings because of the realities of the situation.

Before TRR began last season, how many years had it been since we've had an off season in Texas? Why did the off season stop? Why don't we have more off season events in Texas?

Jane

I've been very impressed with the level of play at the Texas regionals this year, especially Alamo and Lone Star. The depth of quality teams was high and these regionals were among the most competitive of 2012.

Many people and teams had a part in this, and TRR is a major part of the improvement. I have a big heart felt thank you to everyone that contirbuted last year and again this year. Your efforts are paying off.

As far as practice bots and multiple entries for the teams, I don't really have much of an opinion other than we should all be thankful and supportive of the sponsors of this competition. They are doiong a great job and have influenced dozens of teams!

[jessjank.]

I will repeat part of my response from yesterday evening: "the decision to only allow each team to register with just one robot had already been made in order to ensure that there are enough slots for all interested teams and potential pre-rookie teams." With regard to pre-rookies, our aim is to provide a supportive environment for these new, interested teams to get a head start with the help of veterans and perhaps place themselves in a more sustainable, successful position before the beginning of the official FIRST season... not simply to create new teams. While we have not yet officially reached capacity, based on all the interest we've received we won't be hungry for teams. The decision to allow one robot entry per team is final. It is entirely up to teams to decide whether or not they choose to participate because of that constraint.


With regard to my earlier comment as well, my apologies if my intentions were not clear. I said: "While TRR is not an invitation-only event, the hope is that we can build this competition up to eventually be much like IRI." I intended this to mean that we are trying to grow TRR to be an off-season competition that teams from all over are excited to attend, based on the quality and merits of the event. I think this is a fine and reasonable goal to set. We may not yet be at that level, but we aspire to grow and develop in that manner. As such, we always welcome constructive recommendations and feedback that we will consider and utilize in a way that will best match the values and goals of this event.

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by jessjank.

With regard to pre-rookies, our aim is to provide a supportive environment for these new, interested teams to get a head start with the help of veterans and perhaps place themselves in a more sustainable, successful position before the beginning of the official FIRST season...

Jess, 3481 Bronc Botz will help ANY pre-Rookie team get a working kit-bot ready for TRR _IF_ they make the trek to our shop.

For those pre-Rookie's not in a position (time/funding) to have a kit-bot but would like to get some competition experience @ TRR we would offer our practice bot, but with 3481 students as Driver/Operator... I cannot risk a $3,100.00 (plus $3k-$4k in donated sheet-metal labor) machine on getting broke/damaged via inexperience. HECK, we break-it enough ourselves... ;-)

So, please pass my contact info on to any interested TRR pre-Rookie teams: 210-858-8575 / michaelblake@insurancelabs.com / www.broncbotz.com

[Michael Blake]

Originally Posted by JVN

It seems to me... there is emphasis within the community to advance teams from skill level 1 to 2, 2 to 3... but no one seems to care if they advance beyond about level 5.*

Before someone beats me to it.

* - Unless you're from Michigan.

EXACTLY, John. There's no "program" or group initiative in Texas for those who truly desire to get to all-around "Black Belt" level...

I know, even with acute desire and laser-like goals, we may never rise to the level of 148, 118, and 1477... but, our quest to get there SHOULD NOT be subordinated to someone else's "vision" of prioritizing our finite capacity/resources to elevating generic teams just for the sake of elevating generic teams...

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Michael Blake

EXACTLY, John. There's no "program" or group initiative in Texas for those who truly desire to get to all-around "Black Belt" level...

I know, even with acute desire and laser-like goals, we may never rise to the level of 148, 118, and 1477... but, our quest to get there SHOULD NOT be subordinated to someone else's "vision" of prioritizing our finite capacity/resources to elevating generic teams just for the sake of elevating generic teams...

I agree with your sentiment and would be upset in a similar situation, but I think you've made your point clear, and Jess has made hers clear, and you made yours clear again, and she made hers clear again... so on.

Look for other events to attend that will allow multiple robots, and/or be content with a single robot for this event (or choose to not attend). We don't go to Calgames for that reasons as there are several other California events more reasonable priced that allow multiple entries.