Reaching Critical Mass

[JaneYoung]

If you haven't done this already, remove as many assumptions as you can regarding the students' reasons for not attending meetings or workshops that are made available.

Examples of key reasons/constraints: transportation challenges, personal commitments to the family, and jobs.

When those are addressed, then you can work on finding ways to maximize individual participation/contributions and go from there.

One interesting thought: this weekend, we held one of our SMART Camps and, immediately after the camp, the team members and the school teachers met to go over what worked and what didn't work at this particular camp. (The camp was at the Texas School For The Blind here in Austin.) One of our students talked about how it started out difficult, then hit a smooth spot where she felt things were going well, then it got difficult again. My response to that was - that is what mentoring is and that you find ways to work through the difficulties and appreciate the smooth spots, staying focused the entire time. I think focus has a lot to do with the end result, short term and long term.

Another thought: if we leave things solely up to students, such as deadlines, training, and expectations, then we deal with the results. If we remain focused, attentive, on task - all of us - then we deal with those results, as well.

Jane

[Jon Stratis]

From my experience, most teams start out that way - the mentors are the driving force behind the team. It doesn't matter if the robot is student built or mentor built, it wouldn't get done without the mentors there pushing the team. Neither would the awards submissions. Part of that is because, as a new team, no one really knows what to do, and the mentors (with much more general experience) can figure it out easier.

However, after a few years of working with a team, showing them how things should be done, what the schedule should be like, and all that other stuff, you'll find that the students start to do this stuff without needing to be pushed as much. Someone who's been on the team for 3 years and is now captain in their senior year should more or less know how the team should be run and what needs to be done. Of course, if "how the team should be run" is the mentor standing in front of the group all the time, then that's what they'll expect. We start and end every meeting as a big group gathered around our conference table. The captains stand up front leading the meetings, the students sit around the table. The mentors stand in the back. Yes, we do chime in when needed and help them stay on task... but it is student led. The only part of those meetings that is mentor led is a few words by the faculty adviser on schedule, meeting times, and other administrative items.

We've worked pretty hard to gradually shift work off of the mentor's shoulders and onto the students. It doesn't happen all at once, you have to set small, realistic goals. Our first year, the students showed up and did what we told them to build the robot the mentors designed. The second year, the students came up with the basic concept behind the design, then we built the robot based on a prototype a mentor brought in from home. The third year, the students spent almost 3 weeks building prototypes figuring out how the process works, and we ran out of time to get the robot working as well as we wanted. The fourth year, we really hit our stride on actually building a robot. We spent less time on prototypes, the robot did what we wanted, and it all went smoothly. The same for our fifth and sixth years. In fact, this year the team set a goal of being completely finished with the robot a week early. As mentors we had always pushed to get finished early, but always ended up with a 40+ hour final build weekend. While we didn't hit our target, the team really pushed themselves harder than we've seen before, having set the goal for themselves.

More awards-related, we pushed the students for a number of years. We tried to get them to keep a design notebook, which in previous years was a big flop. But this past year, we had a freshman come in who took it on themselves to make it a success... and the notebook was filled out during or after every single meeting. She copied sketches, tables, and equations from the whiteboards, captured all of the "failed" ideas that led to those that ended up on the robot, and really delivered a great end result. There is no doubt in my mind that it will only get better over the next few years, and by the time she graduates it will simply be "habit" for the team.

We pushed the team to work on chairman's every year, and some times it could be like pulling teeth. This year, though, the captains came in and drove the team towards putting together a great chairman's submission. They were both great technical leaders on the team before this, and they sacrificed a lot of time working on the robot in order to get chairman's as perfect as possible. We didn't win, but it set a bar that the team will have to beat next year.

Every year we meet with the new captains over lunch in the summer to help get them setup for the year. It helps for planning the summer and fall programs. And every year, I challenge them to pick one area of the team, or one award, or one item to improve on, without letting anything established slip. We get them to create a legacy for themselves within the team. I make sure I point out to the new captains what the previous ones did (only going back a few years... the captains they knew), to help give them inspiration and make sure they realize that they, more than anyone else on the team, really have the power to change and improve the team.

So, that would be my suggestion to start with. Talk with your captains, and work with them to develop a reasonable improvement goal they can take charge of. Having them push the goal really makes a difference for the team. Start with the most obvious, upfront student leadership ones (like having the captains lead group discussions instead of the mentors), and you'll find that future captains will naturally be more upfront and assertive, since that is what they saw and expect from years on the team.

[SteveGarward]

I agree with Kim's comments - you need to understand what motives a person, so you can give them the right challenge. That's when the magic happens and you see amazing things. And though understanding everyone's required management style sounds big, you may not even have to use it, just know it so you can work with them best.

I also have the following suggestions to think about.
* Let there be consequences to work not done. If you give them the responsibility to complete an award submission and it is not done on time, do not clean it up. Either submit it as is, and let them know you have done so, or do not submit it since it's not up to the expected quality (of course, they have to know clearly what is expected up front). If you give them responsibility to complete it, and clear instructions as to quality standard expected, do not undermine that responsibility by redoing their work. They will expect it, and do less next time. At the same time, you need to find people who are truly interested in doing the job. If there is nobody interested, maybe there is no submission that year. This shows the team that you will not fill all the gaps - if they want it, they will have to step up and work for it.

* In addition to the above, instead of having yourself review and fix up the work, try find someone else who can give feedback. Sometimes they just need guidance to come from someone else. Perhaps find someone to hold a review session to go over the submission with them. Maybe find a business person who can come and give a talk on writing submissions/papers/business plans so they can get ideas.

* Grow a student leadership group. If students are given leadership roles, it can do a few things. First, it develops leaders. Second, in time, it should take some responsibility off you. Third, it gives others something to aspire to. This does not give them free reign, or ultimate power, or anything like that. They need to work with you and the other mentors, but it gives them responsibility to grow in to. The leaders should probably be decided every year to allow others the opportunity, though that doesn't mean someone can't return the following year.

* Perhaps look at the project management aspects of the team. Rather than traditional project management (since the build season is so short), or micromanaging (which often takes away a person's autonomy), look into other styles, such as Agile processes like Scrum. In such a short timeframe with so many moving parts, this can help keep the whole team up to date and moving forward. (If you want to know more about this, feel free to PM me.)

And to reiterate some of the other points:
* Find the right challenge for the person. Anybody will have a hard time doing something they're not interested in. But if they have the right challenge, you can just get out of their way and see what they can do.

* Let them work with the mentors, not for the mentors. This is not a job, nor is it school. The chance to work alongside someone in this capacity is something they don't get many chances to do. A slight change in the relationship from working 'for' them to 'with' them can change their entire approach to the work.

Every team is different and needs to find their balance. Student involvement is key to long term sustainability, as is long term mentor help. If the team is large but the students don't seem too engaged, I would suggest start working closely with a core group and build out from there.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by SteveGarward

* Let there be consequences to work not done.

There is a huge amount of excellent advice in this thread so far, but I wanted to key on this comment above.

I try (and do not always succeed) to set clear and attainable expectations with every student I mentor. I also check with them often to see if they need anything to meet those expectations.

But I don't mother them, nor do I do the work for them. I do answer questions when I can, direct them to web resources for other answers, and propose ways to figure out the last issues where nobody knows the answers. But they all know very clearly that THEY and they alone are responsible for getting their task done, and getting help when they hit a roadblock.

If it doesn't get done, I sure won't do it. And they all know it.

Just like with my own kids, they all crave approval, and expressing disappointment is a powerful tool.

Coming back to reality, sure there are times when I do lend an actual hand, and always for certain types of dangerous work (table saw with aluminum, for example). Early in the team's history, when we didn't have the depth we have now, mentors would support the students so at the very least they had a moving robot with which to compete. After all, we'll come as close to letting them fail as we can, but pull them back if the whole team is in real danger of failing. That's getting rare these days.

Bottom line: Let them know what you expect, and let them fail to see what that feels like.

On the "trap of doing too much": Yeah, we know what that's like. It is far more difficult to watch them fail, but remember that's when they learn.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Just like with my own kids, they all crave approval, and expressing disappointment is a powerful tool.

I think this is a pretty difficult thing for many people to do, perhaps especially younger mentors. Expressing disappointment is only effective, in my opinion, when the students actually respect you. I know a few young mentors my age who can't use this tactic because the students don't respect them. I was lucky enough to have very respectful students, so it wasn't an issue for me, but what about when a mentor isn't respected by the students?

Might be a topic for another thread, but how do you get students to respect you? What might be some causes of this? Is it strictly because of the young age? Is it just on a student by student case?

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

I think this is a pretty difficult thing for many people to do, perhaps especially younger mentors. Expressing disappointment is only effective, in my opinion, when the students actually respect you. I know a few young mentors my age who can't use this tactic because the students don't respect them. I was lucky enough to have very respectful students, so it wasn't an issue for me, but what about when a mentor isn't respected by the students?

Might be a topic for another thread, but how do you get students to respect you? What might be some causes of this? Is it strictly because of the young age? Is it just on a student by student case?

I think you're right about disappointment being contingent on respect, but respect is definitely not an age issue. Somewhat of a time issue, but not an age issue.

I think this goes back to the OP of the thread as well. I consider respect as earned student by student, but in many cases they seek the same attributes, albeit possibly proven in different ways. There's always a few exceptions, but I find people will almost universally respect you if you consistently:
- Respect and care about them, and everyone around them
- Offer them a real stake and influence in your collaboration
- Build mutual trust and honest two-way communication
- Demonstrate your own competence and confidence
- Prove that what you're competent in (and trying to teach) is of value
- Show you practice what you preach

While I have to do/demonstrate these differently for different students--and accept different demonstrations than some of my peers--I feel like a lot of what students of all ages look for falls in or near these categories somehow.

EDIT: I realized this could come across as indicating that people asking this question aren't component, confident, respectful, etc. Definitely not what I meant. So much is in how you demonstrate it (I'm definitely not perfect). Although I think having self-confidence that you'll be able to gain respect (if you do the right thing) is valuable in itself.

[Jon Stratis]

Siri has a great list of ways to start gaining respect. Keep in mind, however, than trying to gain respect seldom actually works. People see right through it and most often you'll just come across as an egotistical know-it-all. Focus on the team and the students. Set clear expectations and reward them when they hit milestones. Do what you can to help them succeed in whatever they're doing - this doesn't mean jump in and do it for them. All too often, I've seen mentors take something out of a students hand in order to do the job, which sends the exact oposite message. Rather, provide them the tools, knowledge, and experience they need in order to do it for themselves. Also, keep in mind that the smartest/most capable person in the room isn't necessarily the one who talks the most. It's the one that chooses the right moments to talk in order to spur the creative process.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

All too often, I've seen mentors take something out of a students hand in order to do the job, which sends the exact oposite message.

Bingo. Number one way to disrespect a student. Or really anyone. Thanks Jon.

Beyond that, I think there are two different styles here. Thanks for helping me understand the other one. I suspect it's because I'm younger (and clueless), but I find that just trying to "give them the tools to succeed" is what makes me come across as a know-it-all. Because the truth is, I don't know all of those tools. In fact, at least in mechanical (with some great design mentors but no actual professional mechanical designers), there are times where none of us knows.

In those situations, I find students respond better to efforts to gain their respect by working with them through problems, with the understanding that I don't know either. I think I tend to lean more on helping them with how we can approach problems we don't know how to solve--versus a more knowledgeable how to deal with ones just they don't know how to solve. Certainly a matter of degrees, but I'd venture that the approach to respect varies somewhat dependently.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Siri

- Offer them a real stake and influence in your collaboration
- Build mutual trust and honest two-way communication

While all of what Siri says is spot on, I want to point out that for these two in particular, don't let them give input unless you plan to actually listen and consider that input.

In other words, the key word in the first statement is "real", and in the second "honest". You have to live by those, or there is little chance of respect.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

I think this is a pretty difficult thing for many people to do, perhaps especially younger mentors. Expressing disappointment is only effective, in my opinion, when the students actually respect you. I know a few young mentors my age who can't use this tactic because the students don't respect them. I was lucky enough to have very respectful students, so it wasn't an issue for me, but what about when a mentor isn't respected by the students?

Might be a topic for another thread, but how do you get students to respect you? What might be some causes of this? Is it strictly because of the young age? Is it just on a student by student case?

If you act like a student, people will treat you like a student. This is particularly a problem for college mentors that don't take a break. All you've ever really known is being a student (even if you were a lead student), and so I think they really don't know how to act when they start mentoring. When they realize they are acting like a student, they try too hard and overcompensate and then no one wants to hear what you have to say.

All mentors are not created equal -- there is always a hierarchy (And this goes for any organization). Realize you are starting on the bottom. If you want to be top dog that's awesome, but you're going to have to work and earn your way to the top. I get the impression that this bites some young mentors that switch from a relatively successful team to one that is perhaps more up and coming. If you've got knowledge to share, that's great and should help you move up the ladder but if you try and hold the process hostage you're probably going to get burned.

Worth noting that I haven't actually done much mentoring myself, but I did work at a lot of summer camps with kids that weren't much younger than me and have watched a bunch of other people go through this process, so YMMV.

[MysterE]

Hi all,

I wanted to give a brief update and then ask a question along these same lines. First, I am proud to say that we have what seems to be our first functioning leadership council with eight students. Our President took it upon herself to begin planning our meetings and they all seem excited to engage their own tasks.

With that in mind, I noticed that we all seemed to flounder at our new members meeting today especially when it came to conveying what we do as an organization. To be honest, I had a fellow teacher approach one of my students at our demonstration yesterday and ask while watching our students driving and showing off last season's robot "So all you really do in robotics is play?"

Any suggestions as to now to convey something as complicated as a FRC team to new members?

[Jon Stratis]

A couple of thoughts for your latest question:

- What you're looking for here is an elevator speech, and it's not necessarily easy to come up with one. In the past, we've sat down with the entire team to work on them, having each student develop their own based on their own experiences, deliver it, and then talk as a team about what the best aspects of each speech is. In general, our elevator speeches start with a summary of FIRST, and then move into our team and history. With this type of speech, you want the most important information in the first 30 seconds, and then you basically keep going more and more in depth for as long as the audience is interested.
- Driving the robot around is the "cool" portion of the new member meeting. Before we do that with our students, we talk about the robot. Basically, pretend the students are judges at a competition, and you need to tell them all about your robot. Have the returning members talk about how it works, what parts they designed and built. That will help get the engineering aspect of the program across. It sounds like the teacher you mentioned missed that connection, and thought you just got a robot and drove it around! Keep in mind, the game is only important as it describes the task you designed the robot for - don't dwell on it! The important thing is the robot itself.
- A speech won't help anyone to truly understand what goes into an FRC team. During our two week long summer camp this year, we held a mousetrap car competition that was essentially a mini build season + competition for the students. It got them doing some actual engineering to solve a fairly simple task, talking about their car and how they designed it, and even experiencing multiple "matches" with breaks in between to fix/improve their cars. At the end, we could tell the 7 rookie members that they just went through their first build season, and that the actual build season was just a more intense version (and when we said that, the returning members said "oh wow, you're right!"). Describing the whole thing here is probably too much, but if you want to know more, message me with your e-mail address and I'll send over a full description plus some of our materials.


Of course, all of this is targeted at the engineering design/build aspect of a team, and we all know that teams are much more than just building a robot. However, I would recommend focusing first on this aspect and your discussion of it. Once that is on solid footing, you can afford to turn some of your attention towards the other aspects of a team, like community outreach.