[FTC:] Starting a new team 2012

[ehochstein]

Hello everyone,

I am currently mentoring two FRC teams in Bloomington, Minnesota. Next year we are looking into starting an FTC team for the high schools, a pilot program of sorts. We would like it to be a Junior Varsity program, with the FRC teams being the Varsity program. For the first year we want 5 students from each high school on the team. One of the five from each school would be a veteran member and the other 4 newbies. We don't really plan on being too competitive, we would rather use it as a learning experience.

I have a few questions for you veterans of the program (the most recent thread I can find on this subject dates back to 2008).

1. How much should we expect to spend on extra parts?
2. Are there any other teams that are used as a Junior Varsity program?
3. If we meet once a week for several hours will we be able to complete the robot?
4. We also have one middle school team in the district, will we be stepping on any toes by starting a high school team?

If you have any other advice I would love to take it.

Thank you,
Evan Hochstein

[Scott_4140]

Originally Posted by Wiifi

1. How much should we expect to spend on extra parts?
2. Are there any other teams that are used as a Junior Varsity program?
3. If we meet once a week for several hours will we be able to complete the robot?
4. We also have one middle school team in the district, will we be stepping on any toes by starting a high school team?

Depending on how much of the FTC program you’re looking to pursue, your program could easily support more than 5 members on each team.

On to your list:

1. We started our FTC program last year and purchased one FTC base kit and three expansion kits. We also purchased about $500 worth of additional parts for the MN Snow Drift tournament and another $500 worth of spares for the World Championships. I’d budget $1200 on the low end and $2000 on the high end. Depends on the challenge and how complex of robot you intend on building.
2. Locally in Minnesota, I’d talk with KING TeC FRC 2169. I can get you contact info if you need it. They run 3 or 4 FTC teams primarily for incoming Freshmen, but also allow students to remain in the program if they wish. While FTC can be used as a JV program for FRC, The technical challenges are structured differently. I’d keep the door open for it being an alternative High School program.
3. If all you want is to build a robot, program it for the challenge and have some practice time, a few hours a week is sufficient. FTC gets their challenge in September. The MN Snow Drift tournament has historically been late Feb to early Mar. If you want to embrace the full spectrum of what FTC has to offer, you’ll probably need more time. (Additional components would include: Engineering Notebook, CAD modeling, Outreach & Fundraising)
4. FTC is so underrepresented in MN that I can’t see how anyone could complain. The only area they would care about is if you start poaching their sponsors. A short discussion with the Middle School team should alleviate any concerns.

Let me know if you have any other questions on FTC in MN. Our team is always looking for ways to expand and improve the program.

--Scott McDowell
Coach FTC 4140 – Fish in the Boat

[ehochstein]

Originally Posted by Scott_4140

Depending on how much of the FTC program you’re looking to pursue, your program could easily support more than 5 members on each team.

On to your list:

1. We started our FTC program last year and purchased one FTC base kit and three expansion kits. We also purchased about $500 worth of additional parts for the MN Snow Drift tournament and another $500 worth of spares for the World Championships. I’d budget $1200 on the low end and $2000 on the high end. Depends on the challenge and how complex of robot you intend on building.
2. Locally in Minnesota, I’d talk with KING TeC FRC 2169. I can get you contact info if you need it. They run 3 or 4 FTC teams primarily for incoming Freshmen, but also allow students to remain in the program if they wish. While FTC can be used as a JV program for FRC, The technical challenges are structured differently. I’d keep the door open for it being an alternative High School program.
3. If all you want is to build a robot, program it for the challenge and have some practice time, a few hours a week is sufficient. FTC gets their challenge in September. The MN Snow Drift tournament has historically been late Feb to early Mar. If you want to embrace the full spectrum of what FTC has to offer, you’ll probably need more time. (Additional components would include: Engineering Notebook, CAD modeling, Outreach & Fundraising)
4. FTC is so underrepresented in MN that I can’t see how anyone could complain. The only area they would care about is if you start poaching their sponsors. A short discussion with the Middle School team should alleviate any concerns.

Let me know if you have any other questions on FTC in MN. Our team is always looking for ways to expand and improve the program.

--Scott McDowell
Coach FTC 4140 – Fish in the Boat

Scott,

Thanks for all of the information! I have spoken with some of the parents with what you have said and it now sounds like we want it to be more of a freshman training program than a JV program. I am going to hopefully get a mentor or two that can handle meeting once a week during the build season to work on the robot.

Concerning the MN Snow Drift tournament do you know of any limit on the number of teams that can register? If everything goes to plan we could have up to four FTC teams in Bloomington next year, one for each middle school and one for the two high schools. Last year it appears that there were 23 FTC teams in MN, looking at the teams currently registered in Minnesota for the 2012 season there are already two new teams from other areas of the state. That puts the total # of teams at 25, not including the three potential new FTC teams from Bloomington.

According to mnftc.org and the 2012 tournament registration form "entry is limited" and it also says that the tournament slots have been completely filled for last year's tournament. I guess I am just worried there will not be enough space for everyone depending on how much FTC expands in Minnesota next year. If you could offer any foresight on this it would be much appreciated! Otherwise I assume I should email Joe P. as indicated on the registration form?

Thanks for your help!
Evan

[Scott_4140]

Originally Posted by Wiifi

Concerning the MN Snow Drift tournament do you know of any limit on the number of teams that can register? If everything goes to plan we could have up to four FTC teams in Bloomington next year, one for each middle school and one for the two high schools. Last year it appears that there were 23 FTC teams in MN, looking at the teams currently registered in Minnesota for the 2012 season there are already two new teams from other areas of the state. That puts the total # of teams at 25, not including the three potential new FTC teams from Bloomington.
Evan

In the past, Joe has set the size of the tournament based on the number of MN teams registered. I believe the date of that determination has been well into the season, late December or early January. My hope is that this is the year that FTC explodes in MN. I know of a few other organizations that are already forming teams that have not registered and we’re actively recruiting more teams. It would not surprise me at all if there were in the neighborhood of 40 MN teams this season. The venue at Prior Lake High School can easily accommodate a tournament of up to 48 teams.

In past discussions with Joe, he’s already planning for the eventual participation level that will force MN into a regional format similar to what Iowa had this year. Several regional tournaments that the top teams advance on to the MN Snow Drift Tournament. I’d welcome that format as it allows teams more competition opportunities. More competition opportunities improves teams.

I believe Joe gets notified whenever a MN team registers, but it doesn’t hurt to drop Joe a line.

[jcarr]

You may want to consider more than 5 per team. There are a lot of roles on the team, including CAD, software, drivers, build team. I would recommend 6 or 7.

Budget - we suggest that you need about 5K/year to be competitive, not counting travel expenses, especially in your first year. Just buying and building the game elements may cost $500, plus you need a field, although you can build one out of plywood and PVC to save money. We have found that the standard kit and resource kit always have extra peices you don't need and not enough of the ones you will need. We usually order extra parts directly. You can build a non-competitive team for 2500 or less, but if the first time they run on a full competition field is at the championship, they will not do as well as they could. Subsequent years are much cheaper because you have the basic field, NXT, and parts, but that first year can hurt. Starting 2-3 teams simultaneously lets you spread the cost of the field and components. I run 3 FTC teams and we share all the extra components, which reduces waste parts.

Many states are requiring official qualifiers, although it may be different where you are (we are east coast and have a large number of teams per state). To get into a qualifier, or state championship (if there are no qualidiers), a lot of states use a preference list such that in-state teams get priority, then teams that have participated in in-state scrimmages/events, then out-of-state teams. It is usually designed so that every team gets into at least one event.

Good luck!

[ehochstein]

Thanks for the information on the maximum number of teams Scott.

The team would have 10 members total, just 5 from each school. In the future we would expand that to one team for each school but during the first year we want just one team so we do not spread our resources too far.

Budget wise we would probably share a field with the other teams in our school district. I will budget for $2500 or so otherwise.

Thanks for the advice!

[Scott_4140]

Originally Posted by Wiifi

Budget wise we would probably share a field with the other teams in our school district.

If you’re buying a new metal field, I highly recommend getting the VEX field over the AndyMark field. It’s about $100 more, but it’s a lot easier to deal with. MN Snow Drift uses the AndyMark field, but FIRST used the VEX filed at the World Championships.

[superbotman]

I would reccomend contacting Joe because he is the one that knows everything, I believe that using this form will get you in contact with him.

I suggest this because this past year we went from one field to two fields, and that will likely alter the max number of teams in the future.

Good Luck and I hope to see you at the competition!

[ehochstein]

Ok I have one other question for you guys;

As an FRC team (#2470) we already have two NXT controllers from our mini-bot. Does this mean we still need to purchase the KoP with mindstorms or can we purchase it without mindstorms?

I plan on contacting Joe once it gets closer to the season.

[Scott_4140]

Originally Posted by Wiifi

As an FRC team (#2470) we already have two NXT controllers from our mini-bot. Does this mean we still need to purchase the KoP with mindstorms or can we purchase it without mindstorms?

If you already have two of the NXT Mindstorms bricks, you don’t need to order the FTC KoP that comes with the Mindstorms kit. The two controllers should be plenty.

The Mindstorms Kit sells for $280 at LEGO Education and it’s only $200 if ordered with the FTC KoP. So it’s a good deal if you want spare parts or if you want to resell it or make a good deal to a FLL team.

I’d recommend you get at least three of the white rechargeable NXT batteries for competition. They take 2-3 hours to charge after each match. You don’t want batteries to be your downfall at a tournament. They are $60 at LEGO Ed. The charger for the battery is $25. The sensors NXT motors are about $20 each. All these things could factor into your decision to buy the Mindstorms kit or not.