Top 3 Bots in YOUR State

[class1234567]

Originally Posted by avanboekel

They would be a close 4th (Almost forgot about them since they weren't at midswest this year). They attended 2 more "watered down" regionals compared to 1625. Also, 1625's bot was better than their elimination outcomes suggest. So I would say:
1) 111
2) 2949
3) 1625
4) 1208

There where 65 teams at one of the regionals that there were at and at both regionals they made it to the finals when 1625 only made it to the quarterfinals in both competions, so i dont see why 1208 wouldnt make the top 3

[EricH]

Originally Posted by class1234567

There where 65 teams at one of the regionals that there were at and at both regionals they made it to the finals when 1625 only made it to the quarterfinals in both competions, so i dont see why 1208 wouldnt make the top 3

See who they were against. Or: play the Yankees and Red Sox and Rangers and Phillies with one team, then take the same team and play the Royals, the Athletics, the Orioles, and the Twins. Your team will probably do better in the second group. If 1208 was playing "weaker" events than 1625, even though they performed better in terms of how far they went, then you have to evaluate based on the robot itself. (Rankings and final results at prior events have absolutely nothing to do with how good a robot is at the event in question, if you haven't learned that already.)

And if 1208 and 1625 are not similar in robot performance, then you'll have a clear choice. If they are... well, you may have to go to recognition, where do their opponents end up, and all that.


Seeing as how some folks are eager to put 1208 in the top 3, I'd be curious to see their top 3 for IL, which I haven't seen yet.

[Banderoonies]

Originally Posted by O'Sancheski

Connecticut is 2168, 177, and 195

Thanks for the vote Aces!

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by avanboekel

They would be a close 4th (Almost forgot about them since they weren't at midswest this year). They attended 2 more "watered down" regionals compared to 1625. Also, 1625's bot was better than their elimination outcomes suggest. So I would say:
1) 111
2) 2949
3) 1625
4) 1208

This is the first time I've seen someone claim Lake Superior isn't the "watered down" event.

Also, another team from IL that didn't attend midwest, 2481.

[J93Wagner]

Originally Posted by EricH

See who they were against.

Unfortunately, my knowledge of 1625 this year is limited to just Lake Superior, but anyway, here are my musings as to why they lost in the Quarterfinals there. At the least I will try to be unbiased, but I guess I can't entirely do so seeing as how we kinda won the set.

The Alliances

The Blue Alliance: 3747, 3883, and 93
vs.
The Red Alliance: 1625, 2175, and 2957

The Alliance Breakdown:

The Red Alliance Captain was 1625. They were ranked 5th or 6th if I remember correctly in our scouting system. Fast and nimble, they were, by far, the best scoring platform on the field for the match. They were joined by 2175 and 2957, both of which I can't even remember what they did for the match or what their capabilities were... Wow my memory sucks.

The Blue Alliance Captain was us (93). We got to be an alliance captain almost through a fluke (I say almost because I know our drive team tried to get coopertition balances set up for almost every match, even if we couldn't do anything else, including balancing). So, by virtue of being unable to score, we ended up on defense. However, we got fantastic picks to score for us. They were our alliance partners, 3883 and 3747. They were 8th and 11th on our list for top performing robots if I remember correctly. They had relatively similar scoring abilities and could both balance with relative ease.

Match Breakdown:

*Match 1: Red scored no points in autonomous mode while Blue scored 12. The match then took off as any other match might under normal circumstances. The goal: score as many points as possible and then finish with a double balance. Both sides were able to double balance leaving the score at 42-32. A loss for the Red Alliance. If you're going, "What the heck just happened?" don't worry, there is an explanation. It is that during teleoperated mode, we, 93 were able to get in the way of the Red alliance by camping out at the fender and just being a general nuisance. The key to this is that through scouting, we had noticed that 1625 and 2175, when they would attempt to score, would most often go for the fender shots. This severely limited the Red Alliance, allowing 3747 and 3883 to work their magic through scoring.

*Match 2: Red took the lead during autonomous 10-0. Then both teams went on to attempt scoring. Blue caught up to make the score 10-12 and then successfully double balanced while Red failed, which set the final score at 10-32 with Blue winning. I would like to note that we would have won even if Red Alliance had balanced their double like they had attempted. Again, as before, we (93) played defense such that 1625 with their 6-wheel tank got pushed around by our mecanum drive, effectively ending the possibility of scoring at the fender.

Key Points:

We scouted and formed a strategy based on that. This was the basis of being able to complete with an effective alliance given the odds otherwise since it was the 3rd seed against the 6th seed. It also allowed the identification of a key weakness on the Red alliance. The fact that none of their robots were effective from the key which pushed them to the fender where defense can be extremely effective.

Second, the Blue alliance could not have won either of the matches without every team helping out. Without 3747 and 3883, the score would have been 0 on the blue alliance. Without 93, we couldn't have stopped the Red Alliance from being able to score effectively.

----

So I hope that is a reasonable explanation as to what happened there. Feel free to ask questions.

[akoscielski3]

Originally Posted by J93Wagner

*Match 2: Red took the lead during autonomous 10-0. Then both teams went on to attempt scoring. Blue caught up to make the score 10-12 and then successfully double balanced while Red failed, which set the final score at 10-32 with Blue winning. I would like to note that we would have won even if Red Alliance had balanced their double like they had attempted. Again, as before, we (93) played defense such that 1625 with their 6-wheel tank got pushed around by our mecanum drive, effectively ending the possibility of scoring at the fender.

You pushed around a tank drive with mecanums?!?!?! Is this a joke or for real?!

Reading this post just goes to show that if you have a good strategy going into Elims you will do a lot better.

Good job

[Alpha Beta]

Originally Posted by avanboekel

They would be a close 4th (Almost forgot about them since they weren't at midswest this year). They attended 2 more "watered down" regionals compared to 1625. Also, 1625's bot was better than their elimination outcomes suggest. So I would say:
1) 111
2) 2949
3) 1625
4) 1208

1208 did attend a regional with 2949. They ranked 5th in the KC Regional as compared to 2949's 6th. 1208 went on to the regional finals, while 2949 lost in the quarters. 1208 was also a finalist in the second regional they attended.

PS. Its hard to call the KC Regional watered down considering over 1/4th of the field went on to the World Championship. 9 of the 64 teams boast a regional win. 5 teams went on to seed 1st in other regionals. Of the 17 teams that attended champs 6 of them went on to play in the elimination rounds. One team (Bomb Squad) won 3 regionals, their division, and the world championship this year.

By comparison Midwest had 4 out of 49 teams claim a regional victory. 2 teams seeded first in other regionals. 7 teams attended champs and 4 went on to play in elimination rounds. Bomb Squad also attended Midwest.

Both 2949 and 16 played in KC and Midwest. Both teams seeded higher against the Midwest competition than they did in KC.

Below are the KC teams that went to champs.

1986 (#1 seed in KC, regional winner and Engineering Inspiration. #1 seed in St. Louis and regional winner, #4 seed in Curie division and quarterfinalist.)
3528 (#2 seed in KC and semifinalist. #1 seed in Oklahoma and regional winner. #7 seed in Curie division and semifinalist.)
935(#3 seed in KC and finalist. #1 seed at Dallas West and regional winner. Did not attend Champs.)
16 (#4 seed in KC and regional winner. #1 seed at Midwest and regional winner, #1 seed at Dallas East and regional winner. #27 seed in Galileo division, division winner and World Champions.)
1208(#5 seed in KC and finalist. #2 seed in St. Louis and finalist. At large bid for Champs. #15 seed in Galileo division.)
2949 (#6 seed in KC and quarterfinalist. #3 seed at Midwest, quarterfinalist and Engineering Inspiration. #41 seed in Archimedes division and quarterfinalist.)
1987 (#9 seed in KC and seminfalist. #5 seed in St. Louis, semifinalist and Engineering Inspiration. #51 seed in Archimedes division.)
525(#16 seed in KC and semifinalist. #13 seed at 10,000 Lakes and regional winner. #73 seed in Curie division and quarterfinalist.)
1985 (#18 seed in KC and quarterfinalist, #6 seed in St. Louis, regional winner and Regional Chairman's Award. #29 seed in Curie division.)
1108(#28 seed in KC and Regional Chairman's Award. #100 seed in Curie division.) 7th Chairman's Award in last 9 years!
2996 (#30 seed in KC. #1 seed in Colorado and regional winner. #28 seed in Archimedes division.)
3784 (#34 seed in KC and regional winner. #76 seed in Galileo division.)
3931 (#38 seed in KC and Rooke All Star. #41 seed in Oklahoma and Rookie All Star. #98 seed in Galileo division.)
2395 (#53 seed in KC. #21 seed in Oklahoma and regional winner. #31 seed in Archimedes division.)
1764 (#54 seed in KC. #15 seed in Colorado, semifinalists and Engineering Inspiration. #92 seed in Curie division.)
2164 (#58 seed in KC. #2 seed at Dallas West, semifinalist, and Engineering Inspiration. #72 seed in Curie division.)
2410 (#60 seed in KC. #19 seed in Oklahoma and quarterfinalist. At large bid for Champs. #90 seed in Archimedes.)

[J93Wagner]

Originally Posted by akoscielski3

You pushed around a tank drive with mecanums?!?!?! Is this a joke or for real?!

Reading this post just goes to show that if you have a good strategy going into Elims you will do a lot better.

Good job

I would hope that a tank drive wouldn't get pushed back by a mecanum drive, but alas. I am not joking. In the way of proof, unfortunately, the most I could find right now is a mention by the announcer around two thirds of the way in. http://www.youtube.com/#/watch?featu...&v=8SYanAjzUxE

And personally, I feel that your salutations are better off going to our drive team and our alliance partners. I was just an interested bystander with access to the student who made the picks and advised on strategy!

[avanboekel]

Look no further than match 6 at midwest (1625, xxxx, xxxx) beat (111, xxxx, xxxx). Although I didnt personally watch this paticular match (i was in the pits at the time) 1625 looked solid throughout the entire regional. 2949 did the same, defeating an alliance that included 111. They also went 9-3 where 1208 went 11-5 in a game where record means more than seed because of coopertition. I'm not saying that 1208 isnt a good team (they are very good), i would just personally pick 111, 2949, and 1625 before them.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by EricH

See who they were against. Or: play the Yankees and Red Sox and Rangers and Phillies with one team, then take the same team and play the Royals, the Athletics, the Orioles, and the Twins.

Well the Orioles are 39-30 and have a better record than the Phillies or Red Sox...

[Alpha Beta]

Originally Posted by avanboekel

Look no further than match 6 at midwest (1625, xxxx, xxxx) beat (111, xxxx, xxxx). Although I didnt personally watch this paticular match (i was in the pits at the time) 1625 looked solid throughout the entire regional. 2949 did the same, defeating an alliance that included 111. They also went 9-3 where 1208 went 11-5 in a game where record means more than seed because of coopertition. I'm not saying that 1208 isnt a good team (they are very good), i would just personally pick 111, 2949, and 1625 before them.

In the only tournament 2949 and 1208 both attended, 1208 was selected by the #3 captain (935). They could have selected 2949, but chose 1208 instead. 2949 was left to captain the 4th alliance. At least to 935 (who went on to the finals, and later won the Dallas West Regional) 1208 was the better pick. Our scouts were also at that regional and can confirm that 1208 outperformed 2949. I was there, and as the lead scouting mentor for 1986 I can say it's not even a tough call. They're both good teams, but 1208 was easily the better robot at the week 1 regional.

edit: For those that think Record is a better indicator, 1208 went 7-2 in qualifications at champs, 2949 went 5-4. However, when we scout robot performance, record isn't even a consideration.

[avanboekel]

Originally Posted by Alpha Beta

They're both good teams, but 1208 was easily the better robot at the week 1 regional.

Okay, they may have been the better team at a week 1 regional, but both teams progressed well throughout the season. 2949 really started to tune in their shooting accuracy at Midwest, and eventually the championships. Past that, its really hard to compare the 2 (OPR isn't a good indicator, and they competed in different divisions at championships).

Also, I don't know how much weight you can put on this, but 2949 was accepted into IRI, while 1625 didn't make the cut. In this case (assuming 111 is #1), shouldn't it be between 1208 and 1625 for the 3rd spot?

Also, as was said before, what about 2481? They were a solid 24-8 throughout the season, and were finalists at Wisconsin, and semifinalists at Queen City. I wish that both them and 1208 went to Midwest. It would have made making this list a whole lot easier.

[Alpha Beta]

Originally Posted by avanboekel

Okay, they may have been the better team at a week 1 regional, but both teams progressed well throughout the season.

Fair enough. While 1208 did seed higher in their division at champs (15th) than 2949 (41st), 2949 was selected for elimination round play and 1208 wasn't. That is enough evidence to make the improvement since week 1 argument plausible. Not enough evidence to throw-out the week 1 data, but enough to bring it into question.

Neither 1208 nor 1625 qualified for champs (1208 purchased a slot during open registration). 1625 lost every elimination round they played, while 1208 reached the finals in both of their regionals. The idea that 1625 faced superior competition needs some data to back it up. I'm interested in how you would justify either Midwest or Lake Superior being more difficult than KC this year? Even if an argument could be made, losing to better competition doesn't necessarily make you better than someone who won every quarterfinal and semifinal match they played in.

It's pretty cool when a state has so many good teams it makes it difficult to rank the top 3. I hadn't even considered 2481.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Well the Orioles are 39-30 and have a better record than the Phillies or Red Sox...

Eh. Won't last. Unless something changes. (Then again I should talk. The Dodgers are 42-27.) And maybe I should have used the Pirates, who as I recall hold the league record for consecutive losing seasons--but they're currently 35-32...


It looks like my suggestion took a side track. What I was trying to say was, was 1625 playing against tough teams, while 1208 played against easier teams? Now, remember, as noted in the sports example, things change. But if you struggle against a top team, and beat a lower team, while someone else beats both, then where do you stack up against that other team? I would say that they deserve to be rated higher. If you beat two lower-performing teams, and they beat one lower-performing team and lose to a higher-performing team, then who deserves a higher ranking?

[class1234567]

Originally Posted by Alpha Beta

Below are the KC teams that went to champs.

1986 (#1 seed in KC, regional winner and Engineering Inspiration. #1 seed in St. Louis and regional winner, #4 seed in Curie division and quarterfinalist.)
3528 (#2 seed in KC and semifinalist. #1 seed in Oklahoma and regional winner. #7 seed in Curie division and semifinalist.)
935(#3 seed in KC and finalist. #1 seed at Dallas West and regional winner. Did not attend Champs.)
16 (#4 seed in KC and regional winner. #1 seed at Midwest and regional winner, #1 seed at Dallas East and regional winner. #27 seed in Galileo division, division winner and World Champions.)
1208(#5 seed in KC and finalist. #2 seed in St. Louis and finalist. At large bid for Champs. #15 seed in Galileo division.)
2949 (#6 seed in KC and quarterfinalist. #3 seed at Midwest, quarterfinalist and Engineering Inspiration. #41 seed in Archimedes division and quarterfinalist.)
1987 (#9 seed in KC and seminfalist. #5 seed in St. Louis, semifinalist and Engineering Inspiration. #51 seed in Archimedes division.)
525(#16 seed in KC and semifinalist. #13 seed at 10,000 Lakes and regional winner. #73 seed in Curie division and quarterfinalist.)
1985 (#18 seed in KC and quarterfinalist, #6 seed in St. Louis, regional winner and Regional Chairman's Award. #29 seed in Curie division.)
1108(#28 seed in KC and Regional Chairman's Award. #100 seed in Curie division.) 7th Chairman's Award in last 9 years!
2996 (#30 seed in KC. #1 seed in Colorado and regional winner. #28 seed in Archimedes division.)
3784 (#34 seed in KC and regional winner. #76 seed in Galileo division.)
3931 (#38 seed in KC and Rooke All Star. #41 seed in Oklahoma and Rookie All Star. #98 seed in Galileo division.)
2395 (#53 seed in KC. #21 seed in Oklahoma and regional winner. #31 seed in Archimedes division.)
1764 (#54 seed in KC. #15 seed in Colorado, semifinalists and Engineering Inspiration. #92 seed in Curie division.)
2164 (#58 seed in KC. #2 seed at Dallas West, semifinalist, and Engineering Inspiration. #72 seed in Curie division.)
2410 (#60 seed in KC. #19 seed in Oklahoma and quarterfinalist. At large bid for Champs. #90 seed in Archimedes.)

Why do people keep saying that kansas city is a week regional when the facts show that teams from kansas city won other regionals and did well at champs. So can someone explain to me how these where the easier teams.?