What do YOU want in the Kit of Parts?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by EricVanWyk

I'm also not a battery expert, but I've lived with one and worked with another. I believe the LiFePO4 chemistry to be sufficiently safe for FRC usage. They would be perfect if they didn't cost so much.

Or have so much shipping hassle.

I've had some dealings with LiFePO4 batteries--my Lunabotics team used two of them to run a robot. They acted just like SLAs would have (barring chemistry and mass considerations) but gave us no end of headaches getting them shipped down there and back to South Dakota. Apparently to ship them via ground (you can't ship them via air) you have to have a person with some sort of safety certificate to ship them (thankfully, you don't have to have one to receive!)

R/C lithium batteries tend to be dangerous primarily when they are a) punctured or b) charging or c) very hot. If you're charging them, stick them in a flameproof container and set a timer--they should come out all right unless there's some other flaw. If they get puffy, they're considered bad--there's a procedure to safely make them lose all chance of causing problems, involving salt water and puncturing the battery, IIRC. Otherwise, keep them out of heat.

[AlexH]

lipo's also don't like if you draw more than their "c" rating... or if you hit them too hard... but you can transport them easier than a123 batteries. go figure....

[CWhiz]

I would like to see better availability of batteries through the ordering system, the last two years they have been sold out before we can get our order in.

I agree with some of the others - we would really like to see some 80/20 availability through FIRST Choice. We never use the aluminum provided in the kit, but we use a lot of 80/20 extrusion each year.

More Victors (and less Jaguars) would also be good for us. The Jaguars have some additional capability, but we have had failures in competition whereas the Victors have always worked. Providing less in the kit and more availability through FIRST Choice would work for us.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by ebarker

A MUST have for every FRC team
we bought a bag of 100 of each of the following items...

100 seems overkill, most teams will only use these on the main breaker/PD board so a few extra should be plenty for most teams. Also, I think handing any team 100 split washers that fit almost perfectly on 1/4" bolts will lead to improper usage*.

I think a good item to include in the kit is a book of fabrication techniques such as drilling a hole straight, drilling holes in multiple parts so that the holes line up, and just general things like that. I think that even a lot of veteran teams could fin a use for it, such a training new team members. They don't have to be fancy, they will likely get destroyed every year so it is best to make them cheap and recyclable.

* I would have linked to the NASA document mentioned in this document, but the file seems to be corrupted on the NASA server. There is a chance that something else is at fault so here is the document.

[gixxy]

Some kind of micro-controller such as Arduino or Beaglebones for testing would be really great!

Battery Beak would be really helpful

Cross Platform Software. The only Language that is easily done cross-platform is Java, however your Driver Station has to be Windows still. It is annoying at times to deal with.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

100 seems overkill

EOQ - economic order quantity.
Transaction cost - the cost the get the purchase done.

We submit orders to McMaster for a variety of things. They deliver it to us in about 4 hours at a cost of $ 4.xx.

Ordering the smallest package from McMaster is not that expensive, and way easier and cheaper than driving all over town to go by a few parts for too much money.

[YAK'ker]

I'm with Dale on this - I think 90% of the KOP could be omitted and that could be used to help reduce entry fees for the teams. I also agree on the software; all of it should be available to download for free for registered teams, as many times as we need it.

Some of the parts have been defective and/or are incompatible with new regs; parts should be tested beforehand and ONLY those parts that are required for communication updates every year should be provided.

I believe we would see a LOT more adherence to specs and yet more creative solutions if the KOP were reduced greatly. Teams would have to make sure their design solutions are within the strict parameters and not assume that because they are in the KOP it's OK.

Reduce the fees! A lot of the reason we don't see more FIRST groups is because of the high entry fee. There are a plethora of other robotics competitions out there that don't require the financial input. A lot of communities are hard-put to come up with that much. Heck, we can't even afford an art program at our school, anymore....spending $5K on a kit is hard to justify.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by YAK'ker

spending $5K on a kit is hard to justify.

I think you're only spending about $1k on the kit, you still have to pay $4k to enter a second regional.

[Nemo]

My list:

1) Victors

[Gdeaver]

Since TI doesn't want to support the jags anymore. Victors may be in the kit of parts. Maybe they could put a real FET driver chip in the victor and take the PWM frequency up and linearize the output. The Allegro chip would be a good choice. Up grade the FET choice and That should make some teams happy and solve the First speed controller sourcing problem. Oh and make the PWM 10 bit and extend the range like the jags. Then we're happy. Oh and make them reverse polarity protected and thermal protected. Then we're real happy.


I'd also like a USB port on the CRIO.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Gdeaver

Since TI doesn't want to support the jags anymore. Victors may be in the kit of parts. Maybe they could put a real FET driver chip in the victor and take the PWM frequency up and linearize the output. The Allegro chip would be a good choice. Up grade the FET choice and That should make some teams happy and solve the First speed controller sourcing problem. Oh and make the PWM 10 bit and extend the range like the jags. Then we're happy. Oh and make them reverse polarity protected and thermal protected. Then we're real happy.


I'd also like a USB port on the CRIO.

I'd love an upgraded victor, but the reverse polarity protection adds unnecessary cost combined with a performance loss. Thermal protection would also be unnecessary as Victors have no issues there.

What would be nice is just a victor with a faster refresh rate, the linearizing can be solved in code.

[AlexH]

i'd like to see a speed controller like this. it's basically an upgraded 884 or an 883 equivalent...

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by AlexH

i'd like to see a speed controller like this. it's basically an upgraded 884 or an 883 equivalent...

Why? Powerwise the Victor is more than adequate for every motor ever used in FRC.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by CWhiz

I would like to see better availability of batteries through the ordering system, the last two years they have been sold out before we can get our order in.

Did you buy batteries from Enersys or MK?

MK has always been in stock and on our doorstep within 2 days of ordering, for the last 4+ years.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Cory

Did you buy batteries from Enersys or MK?

MK has always been in stock and on our doorstep within 2 days of ordering, for the last 4+ years.

He's referring to the low quantities of batteries available through FIRST Choice I believe.