FIRST is really looking into the Einstein problems

[Jim Wilks]

Read the report in detail.

Lots of "might haves" and "possiblys". No real root cause whatsoever identified. The mystery lives on.

[Hjelstrom]

Originally Posted by Jim Wilks

Read the report in detail.

Lots of "might haves" and "possiblys". No real root cause whatsoever identified. The mystery lives on.

That is definitely not the impression I got after attending the New Hampshire meeting. The FIRST and NI engineers did a fantastic job. They broke down every match for every robot and investigated every segment of time where control was lost. Every single failure was explained very well.

They are being conservative in what the claim as "intentional interference". Even in matches where a witness saw the individual doing what we now know was the hack, they described it as "likely". Only in the case where the individual *admitted* to it, is it described as "confirmed".

We left New Hampshire with the confidence that there will be many specific improvements next year and that hacks like this will be detected by the field. I honestly look forward to the improvements in the system next year.

[JaneYoung]

The report has been made public and there has been time to read and review the findings.

There was a big push for FIRST to act, and act quickly, following the troubles that arose on the 2012 Einstein field competition.

I'm interested in seeing what type of closure this has brought to this thread and to those who contributed to it. The thought, with great power comes great responsibility, has been with me for several days. I've been trying to poke holes in the thought as it applies to the work that was done by everyone committed to identifying the problems and documenting them. I can't find any holes to poke - everyone involved acted responsibly and with great integrity. The experience, and how it has been handled, provides all of us with insight towards a newly raised bar of working together, sharing knowledge and experience, and being humble and open to the process of identifying weaknesses, trouble spots, and problems. It's not an easy thing to do to keep egos in check and trust the opportunity being made available. We can all learn from these teams and these leaders who were willing to step up to that bar and, by doing so, move it to a higher level.

It's been an incredible experience to be able to follow this process from the peanut gallery. I won't put what I've experienced and learned from all of you to waste. I will use it wisely. This is a promise.

Thank you.

Jane

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

It's been an incredible experience to be able to follow this process from the peanut gallery. I won't put what I've experienced and learned from all of you to waste. I will use it wisely. This is a promise.

I'm glad this has been an incredible experience for you. For our team, this has been one of the most heartbreaking and deflating experiences possible. I'm glad you want to revel in the sunshine here, but perhaps you should remember that there are still a lot of people who are very hurt and upset. Sure, it's just a robotics competition, but some of us actually care about the robots...

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I'm glad this has been an incredible experience for you. For our team, this has been one of the most heartbreaking and deflating experiences possible. I'm glad you want to revel in the sunshine here, but perhaps you should remember that there are still a lot of people who are very hurt and upset. Sure, it's just a robotics competition, but some of us actually care about the robots...

I'm not sure I'd be able to handle the same situation with the same class you have, Karthik. The whole situation just plain sucks, and so very many of us feel for you guys.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I'm glad this has been an incredible experience for you. For our team, this has been one of the most heartbreaking and deflating experiences possible. I'm glad you want to revel in the sunshine here, but perhaps you should remember that there are still a lot of people who are very hurt and upset. Sure, it's just a robotics competition, but some of us actually care about the robots...

I, too, care about the robots. As an Archimedes team, we were naturally rooting for The Eh Team. I was even more geeked when Chairman's was announced, giving the Simbots the chance to equal HOT's 6-banner 2005 season (with a GTR-W silver kicker). To see things come unglued with this intensity at this level was puzzling to our new students, shocking to our veterans.

That someone would interfere intentionally with Einstein has robbed us all of something. Those us of us watching were robbed of what could've been a spectacular finish to one of the best FRC seasons of the modern era. Twelve teams were robbed of the chance to compete on even terms. And frankly, everyone that's ever set foot on a FIRST field, from corn kernels on, was robbed of a certain innocence, the ability to say "We're better than that." Now we're forced to settle for "All but one of us are better than that, and we threw that bum out."

I hail from a state that has combined for two Einstein appearances ever. We know how rare the shot at the title is, and just how wronged everyone was this year in St. Louis. But without a time machine to hunt down that individual and slap the cell phone out of his hand, all we can do is make the most of the events that follow. This has triggered a number of procedural and technological improvements that will hopefully benefit all teams in the future. And it has served as a stern warning to anyone else thinking they'd want to interfere with a match. I agree that this came at far too high a cost, but at least we all got a sliver of something for our disappointment and heartache.

[Peter Matteson]

I've read the report and digested it at this point, and I'm posting here because I of my posts being critical of method process for the trouble shooting.

I have to say I believe they did the job correctly and had the right people there based on what I gathered from this report. I think they did the best job possible given what they had to work with.

To those of you that don't understand how it feels to be so close playing for the championship and have something outside your control end your run I really can't explain how it feels. I really feel for the entire Eh-team and understand you pain.

I had a litany of other instances I was going to post here about things that have been done wrong on Einstein over the last several years proving the point that this is not an isolated occurance, but it adds nothing to the discussion. I hope in the future FIRST pays attention to all aspects of what goes on and around the field in the future.

[Taylor]

What you, and your team, experienced throughout 2012 certainly inhales audibly and I can't fathom what it's been like (I wouldn't want to). What Patrick said rings true.
I'm having trouble connecting the dots between Jane's post about learning from the engineering processes of problem solving, troubleshooting, and documentation to your taking it as an attack to your team.
Tragedies happened. We've learned from them, as individuals, as teams, as a community. Why choose to focus on the hurt and distress rather than embrace the lessons that have come? Everybody "cares about the robots" - otherwise we'd be doing science fairs. Otherwise there would have been no investigation, involving people across North America, some not even involved with the 12 Einstein teams Can't we also care about and celebrate the processes, the professionalism, the experience of healing?

[IndySam]

I'm with Taylor Karthik, I don't see how you link Jane's post with the pain your team experienced.

I can try and understand what you guys are going through but there is no way any of us can say we really can. I am truly sorry.

But we have to treat this as a learning experience and carve whatever good we can from the whole thing. I really hope you guys can too.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Taylor

What you, and your team, experienced throughout 2012 certainly inhales audibly and I can't fathom what it's been like (I wouldn't want to). What Patrick said rings true.
I'm having trouble connecting the dots between Jane's post about learning from the engineering processes of problem solving, troubleshooting, and documentation to your taking it as an attack to your team.
Tragedies happened. We've learned from them, as individuals, as teams, as a community. Why choose to focus on the hurt and distress rather than embrace the lessons that have come? Everybody "cares about the robots" - otherwise we'd be doing science fairs. Otherwise there would have been no investigation, involving people across North America, some not even involved with the 12 Einstein teams Can't we also care about and celebrate the processes, the professionalism, the experience of healing?

Did the Eh-Team need to have their season ruined by someone trying to "make a point" about computer security for some people on the internet to learn about failure analysis, professionalism, and the experience of healing? No.

Us armchair QBs can say that we learned a lot and will put it to good use -- but did we really go through the process? I don't think we did.

[JaneYoung]

What I wrote in this thread had to do with this thread. It also had to do with the respect I've felt for those directly involved with situation. It is one that has continually shown us what we are made of as members of FRC.

Jane

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

Did the Eh-Team need to have their season ruined by someone trying to "make a point" about computer security for some people on the internet to learn about failure analysis, professionalism, and the experience of healing? No.

Us armchair QBs can say that we learned a lot and will put it to good use -- but did we really go through the process? I don't think we did.

By 'process' I meant the shared experience of troubleshooting, finding solutions, reading and understanding the documentation that resulted. Of course we didn't go through the "process" of having our dreams shattered in a despicable and embarrassing way, and I don't believe I insinuated that any more than Jane did.
I don't consider myself an armchair QB; I consider myself a creator of tomorrows engineers and problem solvers that can learn and grow from this horrible incident.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Taylor

What you, and your team, experienced throughout 2012 certainly inhales audibly and I can't fathom what it's been like (I wouldn't want to). What Patrick said rings true.
I'm having trouble connecting the dots between Jane's post about learning from the engineering processes of problem solving, troubleshooting, and documentation to your taking it as an attack to your team.
Tragedies happened. We've learned from them, as individuals, as teams, as a community. Why choose to focus on the hurt and distress rather than embrace the lessons that have come? Everybody "cares about the robots" - otherwise we'd be doing science fairs. Otherwise there would have been no investigation, involving people across North America, some not even involved with the 12 Einstein teams Can't we also care about and celebrate the processes, the professionalism, the experience of healing?

In every tragedy, there is obviously some good that comes out of the lessons learned. Please excuse me for drawing some parallels to situations which were completely beyond the scale of what we saw on Einstein, but some people in this community are so blind through their rose coloured glasses that it's the only way to make them see anything. (Again, trying to be very clear here, that I'm comparing the scope of the events on Einstein to any of these tragedies, I'm just trying to make a point painfully clear)

After Hurricane Katrina there were many lessons learned about disaster management. Did anyone think it was appropriate to say "Oh, what a beautiful day for America. I've learned so much from this!"? God, I certainly hope not.

Perhaps the peanut gallery needs to spend a little more time trying to understand what our teams are going through, and a little less time trying to put a positive spin on everything that happens. Sometimes things just suck. If I sound angry, it's because I am. I'm frankly a little tired of people trying to tell me that I should be "thankful" for Einstein. Should I be thankful that I had to wipe tears off of a student's face at a time when she should have been celebrating a Chairman's win? Was it really "beautiful" when a once in lifetime opportunity was stolen away from our team by a "hacker"? While you're all celebrating the forthcoming FMS whitepaper, perhaps you should remember that there are multiple victims here who aren't in the mood for celebration. Some members of the FIRST community, who actually get it, have been incredibly supportive, while others have just shown us a complete and utter lack of respect.

The Simbots are trying to move on, sorry if we can't do it fast as the rest of you want.

[Jay O'Donnell]

Originally Posted by Karthik

In every tragedy, there is obviously some good that comes out of the lessons learned. Please excuse me for drawing some parallels to situations which were completely beyond the scale of what we saw on Einstein, but some people in this community are so blind through their rose coloured glasses that it's the only way to make them see anything. (Again, trying to be very clear here, that I'm comparing the scope of the events on Einstein to any of these tragedies, I'm just trying to make a point painfully clear)

After Hurricane Katrina there were many lessons learned about disaster management. Did anyone think it was appropriate to say "Oh, what a beautiful day for America. I've learned so much from this!"? God, I certainly hope not.

Perhaps the peanut gallery needs to spend a little more time trying to understand what our teams are going through, and a little less time trying to put a positive spin on everything that happens. Sometimes things just suck. If I sound angry, it's because I am. I'm frankly a little tired of people trying to tell me that I should be "thankful" for Einstein. Should I be thankful that I had to wipe tears off of a student's face at a time when she should have been celebrating a Chairman's win? Was it really "beautiful" when a once in lifetime opportunity was stolen away from our team by a "hacker"? While you're all celebrating the forthcoming FMS whitepaper, perhaps you should remember that there are multiple victims here who aren't in the mood for celebration. Some members of the FIRST community, who actually get it, have been incredibly supportive, while others have just shown us a complete and utter lack of respect.

The Simbots are trying to move on, sorry if we can't do it fast as the rest of you want.

Thank you for saying this, I think it really puts the enormity of this tragedy in perspective. FIRST is a huge part of mylife, and I'm sure it is the same for most kids on your team. I especially feel for the seniors who will never have another chance at this as a student, and I hope for your teams sake you make a quick return to Einstein.

Simbotics is one of best teams in FIRST, both on and off the field. What happened is extremely unfortunate for you guys. I completely agree that this is not something that you will be able to get over quickly, and the FIRST community is here for you. As we all know, time heals all wounds, but for right now, you every reason to be upset. Your team, along with the other 11 on Einstein, have been the most professional group I have ever seen, I know I wouldn't be able to handle it as well as you all are.

[Racer26]

For those having trouble grasping the enormity of Karthik's posts, I'm gonna put them in perspective for you.

2012 Simbotics Chairman's Video

Watch it. Again. Of all the teams in FIRST, including past HoF teams, I can't think of a team that "gets it" any better than 1114. The video says it all. 1114 is a CLASS ACT.

Karthik and the rest of 1114 have pretty much dedicated their lives to this program. There is a reason their CCA this year was LONG overdue.

To have their chance at taking home the double crown stolen away by some fool with a cellphone is devastating. I don't know strong enough words to describe the emotions I felt, never mind what the members of 1114, 2056, 4334, and the rest of the Einstein teams have felt.

Imagine how 4334 feels. They're rookies! They "get it" too. Won Rookie-All-Star at GTREast to earn their seat. They're trying to get a western Canada regional started NEXT YEAR. For those playing the home game, there are currently TWO teams in western Canada, 1482, and them. Its an absolute tragedy that their stellar first FIRST season came to an end like this. I have to imagine its making them question all the time and money they've put in.