[FRC Blog] Einstein Report Released

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Libby K

This is what I mean. The situation in which the team formerly associated with the individual steps forward and makes a statement will create a much better atmosphere for themselves than the situation where the community eventually finds out who this person is and publishes their name and association. As much as I think that illustrates the bad parts of the internet, it's more than likely going to happen because this IS such an emotionally charged issue for so many.

If you were that team, wouldn't you want to admit that, like Alex said, this person had a different character than you thought... rather than get called out on a public forum before you get your chance to speak for yourself?

I don't approve of a witch-hunt for the person involved, but I do believe the team should get a chance to step forward before those with the torches and pitchforks get them first.

I disagree...I don't see how a team's statement would be any different announcing it themselves or after the "witch-hunt" finishes. I, for one, would feel no different feelings for the team other than, if they announced it themselves, saying, 'that's bold', and then moving on with the same 'not the team's fault, etc...' feelings. But as EricH greatly said earlier, that team will forever have their name associated with this, whether that's the right thing or not; it's what will happen.

The longer the secret is kept, the better. If the team name never is revealed other than mumblings at regionals(ie. "Yeah I hear it was that mentor for team XXXX"), then that is even better.


Also, has anyone considered the possibility that the team themselves don't even know about it, and that the perpetrator is passing it off as leaving for other reasons? Part of me wants to view that as a case, but part of me has reasons why that wouldn't work (how would FIRST get into contact with the individual other than through the main team contact? unless that person kept it a complete secret/between them and the perpetrator).

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Ekcrbe

Each team affected by this has a right to be angry at the person who perpetrated the situation. But if four years later the team comes forward or is exposed, and those teams hold a grudge and still can't forgive the team the individual was connected to, then those teams have a GP issue. I would hope that stigma wouldn't last too long that far down the road.

Do they really have a GP issue? If someone killed another person and then waited 4 years to confess, would it be wrong for the family members to hold a grudge (an extreme case but you get my point)? As Tyler pointed out here, no one but the twelve Einstein teams know what it is like to be cheated out of a fair shot at the gold. If I were them, I'm sure I would still be angry 4 years from now. Heck, I'm not them and I'll probably still be angry. This post gives a very personal view into what these teams had to go through this season. Why should they forgive this individual? I think there would be a problem if these teams were not still angry after some time has passed (say 4 years?). I have no problem with teams holding a grudge after putting in hundreds of hours, dollars, and heartache into their teams, and that is only for this season alone. Multiply by how many years each team member has been involved with their team, and you get the magic number of how angry each and every one of them should be should be.

Originally Posted by stevend1994

Also, has anyone considered the possibility that the team themselves don't even know about it, and that the perpetrator is passing it off as leaving for other reasons?

Thats what I read it as.

For personal reasons, this individual opted to resign.

Granted, "personal" reasons could mean anything from his/her dog dying to his/her overwhelming guilt for this inexcusable act of interference.

[Ekcrbe]

Originally Posted by Gregor

Do they really have a GP issue? If someone killed another person and then waited 4 years to confess, would it be wrong for the family members to hold a grudge (an extreme case but you get my point)? As Tyler pointed out here, no one but the twelve Einstein teams know what it is like to be cheated out of a fair shot at the gold. If I were them, I'm sure I would still be angry 4 years from now. Heck, I'm not them and I'll probably still be angry. This post gives a very personal view into what these teams had to go through this season. Why should they forgive this individual? I think there would be a problem if these teams were not still angry after some time has passed (say 4 years?). I have no problem with teams holding a grudge after putting in hundreds of hours, dollars, and heartache into their teams, and that is only for this season alone. Multiply by how many years each team member has been involved with their team, and you get the magic number of how angry each and every one of them should be should be.

No, no, no. I'm sorry for any ambiguity in my previous post. I meant it would be wrong for the victims to be mad at the associated team, not the individual him/herself. After four years of time to numb the pain slightly, I would expect reasonable people, like FIRSTers, to have cleared their vision and then be able to see that the associated team itself is not (we hope) the bad guy. The rest of that team could be, in a roundabout way, like victims themselves, because of the horrible publicity potentially brought down upon them by the community at large.
I hope that hailstorm doesn't come to them.

To what you did say, of course they will be mad, and justified in being so.

[Gregor]

Originally Posted by Ekcrbe

No, no, no. I'm sorry for any ambiguity in my previous post. I meant it would be wrong for the victims to be mad at the associated team, not the individual him/herself. After four years of time to numb the pain slightly, I would expect reasonable people, like FIRSTers, to have cleared their vision and then be able to see that the associated team itself is not (we hope) the bad guy. The rest of that team could be, in a roundabout way, like victims themselves, because of the horrible publicity potentially brought down upon them by the community at large.
I hope that hailstorm doesn't come to them.

To what you did say, of course they will be mad, and justified in being so.

When the individual's name and assoisted team are finally discovered, I would like to think that the FIRST community wouldn't hold the team to blame. I couldn't imagine it if someone from my team did something like this. That would already be agonizing for the team in itself. To then be know as the team who ruined Einstein 2012 will be a sad, yet albeit inevitable add on.

[Ekcrbe]

Originally Posted by Gregor

To then be know as the team who ruined Einstein 2012 will be a sad, yet albeit inevitable add on.

I challenge the FIRST community to be above this and avoid putting this stigma on an unfortunate team and consider everyone in this team's influence innocent until proven guilty. There's no guarantee the perpetrator acted alone, but it would be even sadder and stranger to find a cast of co-conspirators. I doubt this will be the case.

[Akash Rastogi]

Did anyone from 1717 get to formally investigate with FIRST the cause of their issues during division eliminations?

Seems logical to look into their case as well as other communication issues during eliminations at Champs, albeit, probably without inviting all teams to Manchester it might be difficult. At least it would give these other teams piece of mind as well knowing that it is not solely some issue with code/electronics that caused their issues during elims.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Gregor

what I read it as.

Granted, "personal" reasons could mean anything from his/her dog dying to his/her overwhelming guilt for this inexcusable act of interference.

Well, I was moreso saying that that's what they'd tell their team; "I'm leaving for random understandable personal reason" when it's really "I'm banned from FIRST events". With their team having NO knowledge whatsoever of what he/she did


And does anyone else think it might be beneficial(or in some ways detrimental) to have two topics of discussion for thisne political, one technical. Or would that just draw too much attention to the political stuff/become a battleground?

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by stevend1994

<snip> If the team name never is revealed other than mumblings at regionals (ie. "Yeah I hear it was that mentor for team XXXX"), then that is even better.

Also, has anyone considered the possibility that the team themselves don't even know about it, and that the perpetrator is passing it off as leaving for other reasons?

I think we're all shocked by what occurred in St. Louis. This is NOT FIRST.

Suppose the perpetrator leaves the team because of graduation? The "individual" was not identified in the FIRST Einstein Investigation Report as being a mentor nor student. Wouldn't the FIRST community would be more forgiving if this was more like a teenage "stunt" rather than an attack on sportsmanship and GP by a team leader? If a mentor did this, the team involved likely would suffer irreparable damage to their reputation.

[Todd]

Good work on FIRST and all volunteers and afflicted team's parts with their swift and thorough analysis.

Good work on catching the issues with smart dashboard.

Good work on 118's part in identifying their own issue with their gyro reset loop.

Good work on 118's and volunteers parts again for working to identify the issue with their vxworks network buffer being overrun following the cessation of normal crio code activity.

Good work on all parts reminding us that its probably best that our cRios never run at 100% utilization, and that its perfectly plausible to not hit 100% doing all sorts of complicated logic, whether you're running c++, java, or labview.

Good work on deciding to limit team bandwidth moving into the future, our applications are only going to get greedier with time and we need to have a cap.

Good work spotting all wiring problems that were in fact present with several of the playoff teams.

And good work and god speed in all future efforts in securing the field against any external interference, be it intentional or not. The only secure network is one that's disconnected, but we can all (and I'm sure will all) do our best to improve the quality of experience for all FIRST teams.