Team 4334 VS 148 @IRI (Video)

[qzrrbz]

Originally Posted by Chinmay

This was favorite moment from IRI. The first match 148 had some amazing defense and this was really a turning point when you were able to deny them access to your side of te field. Great job!

And even got a couple favorable foul calls, too!

Way to go little robot!

[Tetraman]

It's funny, because back in 2008, 148's robot was a little robot that could and made a huge splash at Championship.

I have a feeling that Smallbots are going to be a rising trend in FIRST, so long as the game affords small-sized robots.

[Gregor]

This was one of my favourite moments of IRI, second only to 118 scoring 3 points while hanging off of a triple balance for the world high score.

[akoscielski3]

Originally Posted by Gregor

This was one of my favourite moments of IRI, second only to 118 scoring 3 points while hanging off of a triple balance for the world high score.

WAIT WHAT!?!


I also loved seeing this and searched for it in the streamed videos after I saw this. I keep saying how well this robot was made, and how well it agrees with what we are always told, regarding working with you experience and resources, and this little thing shows how well it was done.

regarding more smaller robots in FRC in the years coming, i expect it to happen, after seeing the Vex/FTC bot at the competition I was wondering why we made our robot so big. I turned back to 111 and 907 and was like We are so stupid for making our robots soooo big this year!".

[Aren_Hill]

I'll be oddball here and give props to 148s driver for realizing they were stuck on 4334 and backing up to get off of them, had they been pushing back 148 would have surely flipped when coming off the other side of the bridge. 4334 was also aware enough to take advantage of the situation.

For all you physics people frictional force = normal force x CoF
One robot half on another.....you do the math on who's going where.

I enjoy facts and accurate recollections bring recorded.

Originally Posted by akoscielski3

regarding more smaller robots in FRC in the years coming, i expect it to happen, after seeing the Vex/FTC bot at the competition I was wondering why we made our robot so big. I turned back to 111 and 907 and was like We are so stupid for making our robots soooo big this year!".

That robot was a 99% High School Competition legal VEX robot, the only illegal thing was the bumpers which were put on just for kicks.

[Libby K]

I like to call this one the "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE."
Nice job, 4334.

[JesseK]

I'll catch some flak for this, but I see this video as more marketing than an actual basis of expectation for 4334 moving forward. If the team had tried a shooting mechanism this year then that defense may have left them with a different post-match situation. The video further adds to 4334's expectations of powerhouse-endorsed greatness since the play itself was but a glimpse of a pattern of opportunistic success. Yet left to their own devices I'm not so sure the team will have the same success in 2013.

It was fun to watch nonetheless

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by JesseK

I'll catch some flak for this, but I see this video as more marketing than an actual basis of expectation for 4334 moving forward. If the team had tried a shooting mechanism this year then that defense may have left them with a different post-match situation. The video further adds to 4334's expectations of powerhouse-endorsed greatness since the play itself was but a glimpse of a pattern of opportunistic success. Yet left to their own devices I'm not so sure the team will have the same success in 2013.

It was fun to watch nonetheless

If you watch their other videos your impression will change.

They explain their choice of making such a robot was based on knowing they were unlikely to be a true frontrunner if they attempted scoring (moreso middle pack, a respectable feat for a rookie anyway) and would rather make the robot that would be picked by the best. The videos show the team has a lot of resources and reasoned, intelligent members.

One could (but shouldn't) look at their 2012 machine and say it's unimpressive and doesn't indicate future success, but the thought process and team revealed in their videos and public statements are the type of group that will be competitive in the future.

[Hjelstrom]

I have to admit I didn't give that robot enough credit when I first saw it. That was a pretty incredible design and implementation for a first year team. To have the foresight to choose the strategy they did was really impressive. The way their ball manipulator does everything (scoring, picking up balls, lowering the bridge) is really cool.

Great job!

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by JesseK

If the team had tried a shooting mechanism this year then that defense may have left them with a different post-match situation.

Yeah, and if 2791 built a swerve this year we probably wouldn't have moved. What's your point?

4334 built a fabulous robot within their means that performed objectively better than many teams with shooting mechanisms. Their ability to honestly evaluate their capabilities and to choose a robot type that would get them success on the field (without a shooter) is exactly why they were so successful this year. Yes, if they built a shooter they would have been worse - but they didn't!

Seriously, we should have built that robot this year, and I bet a lot of FIRST is saying the same thing. Or at least in my opinion they should be.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Seriously, we should have built that robot this year, and I bet a lot of FIRST is saying the same thing. Or at least in my opinion they should be.

There is no doubt a lot of teams should have built that robot this year. As the #1 seed at BM and the #2 seed at QC we would have killed to have a robot like that to pick.

More teams should realistically evaluate their capabilities and resourses as well as 4334 did this year.

[Akash Rastogi]

As a rookie team for 2012, we can honestly say we should have built that robot, because in the end, our machine ended up doing the same thing; playing defense, feeding in auton, and gathering balls, and not nearly as effectively as 4334. AND they were wide, they just flat out analyzed the game and their experience/resources/time better. *They can definitely do the same next year. If they were a generic box on wheels then yes I would agree with JesseK, but it is simply not a box on wheels. It is a well thought out design that was implemented better than probably 90% of most other bots this season, including ours.

*- and by this I don't mean build a 3rd bot, I mean analyze the game properly.

[JohnSchneider]

I'm going to start calling these "3rd pick bots". Robots like 4334, and several teams who sat under the towers and redirected balls in 2010 (Besides 469...they dont count ) are designed to be 3rd robots, and aid both their allies. Speaking from experience we built one in 2010, and were told later that had we not gotten picked by our friends in #4, #1 would have picked us and we could have won our first regional.

Historically you never really need more than 2 offensive scorers, so teams who know they can't build a competetive scorer should all DEFFINITLY attempt this. Especially rookies. You can next to guarentee getting picked. I think matches in any game would be much more exiting with different types of robots, instead of watching 6 scorers go at it, and struggle from lack of game pieces. As long as we dont get games like 2011, where there isnt much of an option for one.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Yeah, and if 2791 built a swerve this year we probably wouldn't have moved. What's your point?

.....

Seriously, we should have built that robot this year, and I bet a lot of FIRST is saying the same thing. Or at least in my opinion they should be.

There's an interesting dichotomy in my comparison of the situation in the video and your comparison to your whole competition season.

This is like saying to your boss "I didn't meet your expectations this year, and next year you should expect even less value from me than the value I managed to produce this year". You'd be gone from your company in the next round of layoffs for striving to meet the lowest common denominator.

My overall point is that yea, 4334 had a great season. Yet statistically speaking, for them shine next year they'll have to step up in some way or another.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by JesseK

You'd be gone from your company in the next round of layoffs for striving to meet the lowest common denominator.

You can't exactly compare this to that. This bot, much like 148 in 2008, is the top in its class or category of robots that fill a specific need. Each year's game has some category like this. In 2006 it might be feeders/dumpers (I think 195 did this?), in 07 it might be ramp bots, in 08 lap bots (148), in 09 perhaps super cell delivery/defense, etc..

If their goal is to consistently be the best robot in this type of category, I don't see this as a goal of being the lowest common denominator, I see it as being smart about their strategy to earn gold medals. I also don't see it as taking the easier road to having a gold and not having a challenging design. 148 in 2008 didn't need to have a swerve, but it was their challenge to themselves and they still seeded high at their regionals and then won Champs. There's no need why a team cannot challenge themselves while still creating the perfect auxiliary function robot.


On another note, perhaps a thread specifically about these types of robots would be better, rather than discussing it in 4334's thread.

+0.02