Coopertition in the Olympics

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by Kris Verdeyen

More geese that side?

I felt like the following is appropriate here.



- Sunny G.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by techtiger1

In the flying V the one side is longer becuase the goose in the back is drafting the others. Doing this is rest for the bird and the one in the back will eventually rotate with the one in the lead. Has no one ever seen mighty ducks lol? This is a very good example of coopertition .

[pointless gripe about a children's movie]The "Flying V" would be offsides almost every time.[/pointless gripe about a children's movie]

[Michael Hill]

Originally Posted by Taylor

When geese fly, one side of the vee is always longer than the other side. Does anybody know why?

Not sure. Maybe geese are smart, but not THAT smart? Or...just don't care for aesthetics.

[Mark McLeod]

50% of the time there will be an even number of geese, forcing one side to be longer. Everyone has already noted that.
When there are an odd number of geese lining up randomly, they will be longer on one side 2/3's of the time, given the overly simplified three options:

1) longer on the left
2) longer on the right
3) evenly matched

So, in combined odd/even cases the best it can ever be is 17% of the time the two sides of the V will be balanced.

Now take it a bit further...
The probability of balanced V legs goes way, way down once you start considering the permutations of 1/2/3/4/etc. birds on each side, since for any n geese there will be n-1 unbalanced flight patterns, but only 1 balanced flight pattern.
For example, if you consider 9 birds, there are 8 possibilities of an uneven distribution of geese along the legs, and only 1 that produces balanced legs of the V, so given a random distribution, that's 89% of the 9-bird gaggles that will be uneven. The odds, of course, decrease even more as you add more birds (19 birds has a 95% chance of being an unbalanced V), since in only one permutation do they come out balanced. Odds grow better with fewer birds, but the very best you can get is 1/3 of the 3 bird case will have even V legs.
Taking the 9-bird case as an arbitrary median number of birds, add in the 50% of the time when there's going to be an even number of birds, that cannot be balanced, and that gives us ~94% of the time the V legs will not be even.

I suspect ultimately that it's just because geese cannot count, geese have no foolish desire for geometrical consistency, and they all like to fly next to the popular one...

However, maybe it's because competition badminton shuttlecocks are only made from the left wing feathers of geese, and the geese thereafter list to one side.

[JaneYoung]

Archery?

[Mark McLeod]

Ooo, perhaps the predominance of right-handed archers has something to do with it.

[JaneYoung]

I didn't read closely enough.

Jane

[Ekcrbe]

Oops, sorry. It was late.

[qzrrbz]

Here's another observation experiment for you the next time you are at a beach...

Pelicans (of the "Brown Pelican" variety on the USA OBX) I have observed fly in groups of 2^N (where max N I've witnessed is 5) quite often, as in a statistically significant often. Count pelicans the next time you see some flying by. As 2^N is even, this makes one leg of the V they often fly in longer, too.

[Gregor]

[/birdtalk]

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by OZ_341

Any form of Long distance bike racing.
I was actually thinking about FIRST as I watched this past weekend.

You need to draft off of each other to keep pace.
You must cooperate with those around you, to be in a position to win.

I used to do 60 mile races and the amount of energy you save when you are drafting is simply amazing.

That's what I was thinking too! I haven't watched any this year but I distinctly remember Athens 2004 when in the final race the two leaders who were well out in front kept switching positions for the reason you listed.

[OZ_341]

Originally Posted by IKE

Only on CD can a thread about Coopertition get Goose-jacked...

I would consider Geese flying more of a cooperation than coopertition though (though a competitive food plot could exist). Now if only this thread could turn into a Stag Hunt ( Nash Equilibrium)...

Agreed! Sorry for the goose tangent.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Kris Verdeyen

More geese that side?

Bingo! Now that's an answer that makes sense to me!

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

...so given a random distribution that's 89% of just ...

Why does it not surprise me that Mark (of all CDers) has a valid statistical answer for this?