Team 548 Einstein Statement

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Siri,
I read your post and thought that you were indicating that First engineering had already made the attempt to connect to robots by the time Einstein occurred. then I read further and became more and more confused as to what point you were trying to make. So let me make a few statements. No one at First, to my knowledge, had attempted to connect to a robot during competition. Of course they performed all kinds of testing in the off season and during other events. They constantly take in info from team members, even though they may not acknowledge that they received the info. They perform tests at HQ and ask FTAs to try things in the field. First also reaches out to trusted technical volunteers for their input and testing when needed, to insure that a good cross section of robot design and programming platforms are tested.
Teams attempting to control their own robots at home on their practice fields using 2.4 GHz wifi bands are common. I have done it with my phone and my robot. There are several apps available for Android and iPhone that identify available networks and some actually will do spectrum display showing network ID and signal strength. I checked my phone (I can turn wifi access on and off) between matches on Einstein and found a total of three at 2.4 GHz in addition to any robot radios that were on, and two of them were house Fan network points for use during games. Not what you would expect with all those phones and tablets out there in the stands. There was a spectrum analyzer in place to check for networks coming on line and searching for available connections. To my knowledge that does not keep a log but I can tell you several people were checking that during matches, myself included.
I would like to point people to the list of experts that were present during the Einstein weekend. In that list you will find people from Qualcom who were part of the design team for 802.11 communications and set the specifications, people from Cisco, RF experts from Deka, the wireless consultant that designs systems in the Boston area and worked on the FRC wifi design and a variety of First engineering staff, computer experts and RF Engineers. All of them brought or ordered up whatever tools they felt would be needed to analyze the field and robot communications. Their intention was to find what caused the failures on Einstein and to make an attempt to break the control system in use. I have not seen a group of people so anxious to break something and show off than those assembled. Yes, they found that there are some things that can be done to improve the wifi configuration and improve data transfers and prevent outages. However, and I can't stress this enough, during Einstein the only repeatable failure of wifi control that is supported by robot logs, observation, robot action, etc. was that of the admitted intrusion by a mentor on the field.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Siri,
I read your post and thought that you were indicating that First engineering had already made the attempt to connect to robots by the time Einstein occurred. then I read further and became more and more confused as to what point you were trying to make. So let me make a few statements..

Ok, that was the exact opposite of what I meant/said, so I'm glad we cleared that up. Thank you and thanks for the statements, too. I know I can't understand what it's like working inside something so complex and critically-viewed, much less when it's a volunteer organization. At the same time, your point about FIRST constantly collecting information from teams even if they don't say so worries me somewhat. As may have been noticed on this thread and others, the lack of two-way communication before and at events is difficult to handle in some cases. Community members are left to feel they have little recourse, whether or not we actually do. Nothing good seems to happen when officials are overwhelmed with advice (or complaints) and members feel overwhelmed with things to advise about. (I've also been on both sides of this in FIRST and neither is easy or pleasant.)

I do argue with others on this thread that we need a more consistent/accepted/responsive/official/useful/publicized/whathaveyou reporting channel for these sorts of things. So I ask as nicely and respectfully as physically possible towards both parties: how do we do this?

[EricVanWyk]

Originally Posted by Siri

I do argue with others on this thread that we need a more consistent/accepted/responsive/official/useful/publicized/whathaveyou reporting channel for these sorts of things. So I ask as nicely and respectfully as physically possible towards both parties: how do we do this?

At an event, the "question box" is the best way to begin communication, you just need to be patient as your question gets routed to the best person to answer it. Outside an event, email is your best bet. Specific to these types of situations, you can use 2012frcfeedback@usfirst.org (as stated in the Einstein report). Please note that many people are currently on vacation, and the ones that aren't are buried in work.

The important thing to remember is that the hardest part of engineering is communication. The value of your ideas are limited to the people you can influence with them. As a volunteer I've been cursed out several times by people trying to influence me with their ideas, and it is turns out that screaming in someone's face it isn't very effective persuasion. By the time they've finished commenting on my heritage and IQ, they could have instead told me their idea and provided supporting information.

So, when you "attempt to notify FIRST personnel of [your] belief", please be clear, concise, and civil.