FRC Blogged - KOP Evolution

[Gary Dillard]

10/1 - 10/18, How do I know whether or not I want to use the kitbot drive system if I don't know what the game is?

[Ether]

Originally Posted by Gary Dillard

10/1 - 10/18, How do I know whether or not I want to use the kitbot drive system if I don't know what the game is?

Can you use your voucher to buy the parts needed to build a kitbot?

[Mk.32]

Originally Posted by Gary Dillard

10/1 - 10/18, How do I know whether or not I want to use the kitbot drive system if I don't know what the game is?

Well you could still use the $450 buy a Kit Frame, with modified components even. Also if you team has a habit of building custom drives every year you probably aren't going to use the kit frame anyways.

This is really great imo. Our team just finished up on building our first WCD and we love it. And plan to over the season and $450 to go to components would be awesome! I hope Andymark has some pulleys we can use with a live axle setup...

[David Doerr]

I'm leading a rookie team in 2013 and we've been active for the past month or two trying to prepare for the season. I submitted a reply to the FRC blog and I did my best to be diplomatic. I'm going to be more candid here.

I think it stinks that rookies don't have the same opportunity for a voucher that veteran teams do.

[Mk.32]

Originally Posted by David Doerr

I'm leading a rookie team in 2013 and we've been active for the past month or two trying to prepare for the season. I submitted a reply to the FRC blog and I did my best to be diplomatic. I'm going to be more candid here.

I think it stinks that rookies don't have the same opportunity for a voucher that veteran teams do.

Well to be blunt as a rookie team do you guys have the abilities to custom fabricate a drive train that is solid and proven for your first year of competition? And the KOP drive you will be getting will be more solid then ever with toughboxes and a belt drive.

Even if rookies could choose the $450 of AM parts wouldn't most of them just use it all up buying drive parts that the Kit Frame gives them in the first place?

[F22Rapture]

Originally Posted by Mk.32

Well to be blunt as a rookie team do you guys have the abilities to custom fabricate a drive train that is solid and proven for your first year of competition? And the KOP drive you will be getting will be more solid then ever with toughboxes and a belt drive.

Even if rookies could choose the $450 of AM parts wouldn't most of them just use it all up buying drive parts that the Kit Frame gives them in the first place?

Not to mention that frankly, the kitbot/kitbot on steroids is a superior drivetrain to many if not most of the custom drivetrains many teams build from scratch. Excluding of course some of the teams that have been working at it for several years such as 254, etc.

[Nemo]

This is fantastic. Really, really good move.

[sanddrag]

Best news I've heard in a long time. And I'm amazed that FIRST is providing us such detailed information so early. I hope to see more of this. I have more kitbots piled up than I know what to do with. I really don't need another.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by David Doerr

I'm leading a rookie team in 2013 and we've been active for the past month or two trying to prepare for the season. I submitted a reply to the FRC blog and I did my best to be diplomatic. I'm going to be more candid here.

I think it stinks that rookies don't have the same opportunity for a voucher that veteran teams do.

I run a good team and know a great deal about drivetrains. 973's drivetrains are top tier.

If I walked today and started a rookie team, even with experienced students/mentors and a stocked shop, I would run the KOP drive as a rookie.

I think preventing rookies from accidentally making the wrong choice is a great decision.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I run a good team and know a great deal about drivetrains. 973's drivetrains are top tier.

If I walked today and started a rookie team, even with experienced students/mentors and a stocked shop, I would run the KOP drive as a rookie.

I think preventing rookies from accidentally making the wrong choice is a great decision.

I think there is a very significant portion of veteran teams that would benefit more from using the KOP chassis than giving them a $450 voucher. How come it isn't in our best interest to prevent them from making the wrong choice?


In 2011 half of FRC couldn't put up more than one tube in a match or launch a minibot, and there weren't that many rookies.

[David Doerr]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

I run a good team and know a great deal about drivetrains. 973's drivetrains are top tier.

If I walked today and started a rookie team, even with experienced students/mentors and a stocked shop, I would run the KOP drive as a rookie.

I think preventing rookies from accidentally making the wrong choice is a great decision.

I'm certain you do know a lot more than I about drivetrains, and I likely would agree with you after I see the game that the KOP drive would be used for, but...

...suppose you had already raised and spent money on a C-base chassis, two toughboxes, CIMs, along with other components so that your team had something to work with during the pre-season time period. It's tough for a rookie team to get those $$ together. Wouldn't you want to be able to use a voucher for parts other than those you had already purchased - the same as other teams are able to do - rather than receiving near duplicates in the KOP?

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by David Doerr

I'm certain you do know a lot more than I about drivetrains, and I likely would agree with you after I see the game that the KOP drive would be used for, but...

...suppose you had already raised and spent money on a C-base chassis, two toughboxes, CIMs, along with other components so that your team had something to work with during the pre-season time period. It's tough for a rookie team to get those $$ together. Wouldn't you want to be able to use a voucher for parts other than those you had already purchased - the same as other teams are able to do - rather than receiving near duplicates in the KOP?

Sounds like a practice bot to me!

[EricH]

Not all rookie teams are even in a position to fundraise enough to buy a Kitbot at this stage of the game. In fact, I would say that you're in the 1% or so that are. If I was a rookie, and saw that I could get a frame or $450, what would I go for? Probably the $450--not realizing how hard it is to build a custom drivetrain.

What FIRST is doing is, they are forcing the rookies to take a drivetrain and work with it during the season.

Maybe some of the rookies are doing that in the offseason. Well, I don't suppose that those rookies can repurpose some of that material into, oh, I don't know, superstructure? How about spare parts?

You're not wasting money. You're building inventory. And if your programmers don't have a testbed working by the time the real robot is handed over to them 2 days before bag, that's their problem. Practice robot, anybody?

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by David Doerr

...suppose you had already raised and spent money on a C-base chassis, two toughboxes, CIMs, along with other components ...

And just let them sit on the shelf until kickoff, because you can't fabricate anything you'll use in competition except during the 6 weeks, right?

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by David Doerr

I'm certain you do know a lot more than I about drivetrains, and I likely would agree with you after I see the game that the KOP drive would be used for, but...

...suppose you had already raised and spent money on a C-base chassis, two toughboxes, CIMs, along with other components so that your team had something to work with during the pre-season time period. It's tough for a rookie team to get those $$ together. Wouldn't you want to be able to use a voucher for parts other than those you had already purchased - the same as other teams are able to do - rather than receiving near duplicates in the KOP?

As a rookie team, you will find your sub-teams stretched during the build season. The programmers need a robot to test code/electronics on and the build teams needs the base of the robot to make the top of the robot.

When 3467 was founded, leadership knew what to expect and in pre-season so we had some old robots from teams from around the area and purchased a second KOP chassis from AM along with a second control system. While a significant expense we knew it would pay for itself over the course of several seasons. We can have a practice chassis that the programmers use to test code and prototypes and our real robot so mechanical and programming aren't working over each other. Additionally, after your robot is bagged or shipped you have duplicate chassis your drivers can get comfortable on and depending on the rules you can keep part of your robot to work on. This past year it was a 30lb allowance that didn't have to be bagged so we kept our shooter to tune and test code. Make sure you read the rules!

As a rookie most of us here would recommend you invest pre-season. It will give every aspect of the team a chance to work before you get into the hectic build season. Give your mechanical team some time assembling a chassis and chain.