(4H Team) Should we partner with the school system?

[F22Rapture]

Because our team is through 4H, we had previously thought that we were covered under the umbrella 4H 501 C3. As it turns out, we do not have 501 C3 status, and this has complicated our funding situation somewhat because many of the companies that are willing to sponsor our team require non-profit status to give money. In fact, we may (though nothing is certain yet, it may work out) end up losing out on $2000 from Lockheed Martin and $1000 from Georgia Pacific because of this. If we were to partner with a local public school, it would effectively provide us with the equivalent of non-profit status, however some of our leaders are concerned about losing our independence as a team. Essentially, we're having to choose between economic flexibility and decreased autonomy, or complete autonomy and stretched finances.

Have any other previously-independent FIRST teams been in this or a similar situation? How did it affect the way things were managed? Did it work out as being a good thing in the long run?

[Jon Stratis]

You also have the option of forming your own 501c3 specifically for your team. It takes a little work to get everything filed, but it'll let you retain autonomy, if you think that would be severely affected by other options. I know some teams have done that before (mine hasn't needed to, and hopefully will continue being a part of the school), but you'll have to wait for them to chime in here so they can tell you what it took.

[wendymom]

We are covered under our countys blanket 501 C 3 number. I don't understand why you are not. Do you want our agent to call your agent?

[Rick]

Our 4-H organization is considered non-profit, as are all 4-H clubs throughout the country. However, each club is not considered a true 501c3 organization, but are covered under the scope of the USDA 501c3.

The issues potential donor companies have is that most large companies will require the recipient of a donation to appear in a 501c3 non-profit organization database. More often than not, your local 4-H extension will be in that database, but your club will not.

What we have done in the past is had our local extension receive the donation for us. They hold on to the money and we can spend it by contacting them. They can easily send the money to FIRST for event registration.

Your best course of action is to contact your county or state 4-H extension and talk with them. If they can’t help, keep going up the 4-H chain. 4-H and FIRST have an official partnership and want to see 4-H FIRST teams succeed.

The amount of independence 4-H teams are afforded is a great benefit. Try to find a workaround for getting these donations. I know your team will find a way.

[funstuff]

4096 is a 4-H team in East Central Illinois. It was started through a not-for-profit organization (501 C3) called Illini Robotics. This organization was initiated by some veteran coaches of FLL teams in the area. Setting up the not-for-profit organization allowed these coaches to establish an FTC team and an FRC team in the area. It took some work to setup, but it is now easily run by 2-3 of the mentors for FLL, FTC, and/or FRC area teams, along with a number of advisers.

Illini Robotics provides a number of FIRST teams in the area with the non-profit status, a means to provide funding for those teams (for companies/individuals who only donate to non-profits), technical support for all area teams, and an FLL tournament. 4-H provides a lot of great support to the FRC team, particularly insurance and inclusion in a nationally-recognized program.

Getting 4-H to give your specific club not-for-profit status might be the easiest route to take currently, but also pursue starting a 501 C3, as it opens up a number of options, particularly for if you are considering starting multiple FIRST teams.

[Greg Needel]

Originally Posted by wendymom

We are covered under our countys blanket 501 C 3 number. I don't understand why you are not. Do you want our agent to call your agent?

Wendy,
When I was going through this with 2775 a few years ago I learned that 4H works differently in every state. That is not to say that it can't work for them, but we couldn't get it to work in TN.


2775 (who now just does vex) operates as a boy scout troop which allows them to get insurance and 501c3. This might be an option for this team also.

Greg

[Jimmy Nichols]

When moved out of our school, we partnered with our local Community Foundation for the 501c3, and we carry our own insurance.

[SarahBeth]

We partner with our school, but have our own bank account and 501c3 status.

[Chris_Elston]

I am with Wendy on this as well. Contact your local Extension Office. Basically for us, Indiana 4-H is an extension of Purdue University. If we have a grant that must go to a school, then we pass it through Purdue's office. They process the grant for us. We have and are allowed to use the 501c3 and we also have our own FEIN number. I can't thank 4-H enough for what we have, what they provide for us in Indiana. I understand each state is going to be different. I know some people will argue me to death...I won't mention names...that they would not do FIRST Robotics without school support or a teacher sponsor, but I can tell you, that there of course are pluses and minuses for each. For us, we can control our own team and not have to worry much about "approvals" from a school board etc...I think that's a big plus. Also we have a large membership base of really, really super smart home school kids. Home school kids that our high school would not allow them nor any other kids from any other high school on their school property. So having a community based org like 4-H allows no limits to the kids we have access too county wide. I think that's great. Also think about this...4-H in our county has buildings that go unused in the winter, so we have access to those buildings when there are no normal 4-H clubs like goats, horses, etc meeting during the winter time frame. The timing works out good for us.

[F22Rapture]

A few more tidbits-

We're only a 3rd year team, so we would have to wait another year before even being eligible for a 501c3. I asked our adult team leader and she said that we wouldn't go that route at this time because the cost and paperwork of obtaining one is a bit too much for our team.

We're definitely not planning on creating more than one team for the same reasons, especially since we're located in a fairly small NC town which barely has resources enough for us. It's not like Raleigh where there's 7+ teams coexisting comfortably in 70 square miles.

There's some complicating factor to having our money routed through the umbrella 501c3, though I'm not sure exactly what it is. It goes through NC State University, if that helps. I will, however, ask our adult leader about this in our Thursday meeting.

[Trying to Help]

As another mentor on a 4-H FRC team, I can tell you that a recent IRS ruling has required our state's 4-H groups to apply for a GEN, as opposed to an EIn. All the application process is being handled at a state level and our only change will be how we handle the financial paperwork from here on out. I recently spoke with someone who works at the state level who said that new clubs would have trouble getting an EIN until this process is complete. Perhaps that's what's happening in your case?

That said, we've applied for several grants over the years where the organization couldn't use/find our EIN in their database. We've asked in those cases to use a state-level EIN. In one case, we had to use the University business office as our fiscal sponsor which meant sending all our original receipts to them and being reimbursed later. We do have to check with the state-level folks to use it because of conflict with other groups needing to use it for the same application but so far, we've been successful with our asking. Perhaps there's someone in your state/county office who could help you there?

That said, I'd definitely urge you not to give up your 4-H status. It's been a terrific partnership for our team. And I completely understand the small town, not a lot of resources aspects of having a FRC team in a rural or semi-rural area.

Best of luck!

-Trying to Help