Laser Pointer

[SoyStuff]

I was under the impression that anything higher than a Class I lase was illegal on an FRC robot. This regulation, however, seems to contradict that:

Alignment devices such as templates, tape measures, laser pointers, etc. that are not part of the Robot and fully contained within the starting volume may not be used to assist with positioning the Robot.
Violation: Robot will be arbitrarily repositioned by a Referee prior to the start of the Match.

Is it legal to use a laser pointer on your robot?

*The document containing the regulation can be found here: http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/viewItem/56

[GaryVoshol]

We don't know what next year's rules will bring.

Last year's rule G02 which you quoted prohibited alignment devices which were not part of the robot.

Rule R08 prohibited hazardous and unsafe materials from being used on the robot.

[Camren]

Lets break down this rule that for some reason I dont think you got.

Alignment devices such as templates, tape measures, laser pointers, etc. that are not part of the Robot and fully contained within the starting volume may not be used to assist with positioning the Robot.
Violation: Robot will be arbitrarily repositioned by a Referee prior to the start of the Match.

Thus if the thing is a piece of your robot you can have it only if it is Class I.

[Dad1279]

2012: [R08] D. Exposed lasers other than Class I.

2013: ??? until 1/5/2013

[Colin]

Has anybody had any luck finding a Class I laser pointer/module? My quick search for one last season was not very successful.

[F22Rapture]

Originally Posted by Colin

Has anybody had any luck finding a Class I laser pointer/module? My quick search for one last season was not very successful.

Finding a Class I laser pointer isn't all that difficult, they sell them for a few dollars at half the gas stations I've ever been to.

The real challenge is finding a good use for them. The rangefinder on the Kinect is actually a Class I IR laser spread out to make a grid of invisible dots that it can detect. So it's something to consider.

[Colin]

Every laser pointer I have come across is at least Class II, so far as I can tell Class I lasers only exist in devices like the Kinect.

I would really appreciate it if somebody could point me towards a Class I laser pointer or module (more likely). I want to evaluate their use in FIRST; being able to light up the backboard with a nice little red dot, or better a line, would have been great for our drivers this year.

[pwnageNick]

Has anybody had any luck finding a Class I laser pointer/module? My quick search for one last season was not very successful.

Idk what team you found, but our team used a laser to assist with our auto-aim system on our shooter. The laser controlled the turret alignment. Once the drive train was in place, the turret would start on the right and sweep accross towards the left. When the laser hit the reflective tape, it would bounce back at itself. Once it sensed that, depending on where we were left to right on the key, that would determine how many more degrees the turret would rotate (using a potentiometer).

Here is our promo video that shows it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h55bFVPQbj8

By the time we got to Worlds, our auto-aim system was working very effectively. It took us a long time in the build season to find a good enough class I laser. The laser was also visible on the backboard so if we needed to go to manual mode for some reason, the drivers could use the laser as a guide.

Please ask any questions you have.

-Nick

[cbale2000]

Our team used a class 1 laser on our robot as a visual targeting aid during matches (not prior to the match) this year.

I don't know specifically what laser we used or where we got it, what I do know, however is that the laser was HIGHLY INEFFECTIVE as a visual aid in actual matches. The laser dot was far to small to see clearly at the distance required, not to mention the other visual interference that goes on during a typical FRC match.

While I suspect you could use multiple lasers packed in a tight cluster (much like a multi-LED flashlight) to somewhat alleviate the visibility issue, I still don't think I would recommend it, especially not as a primary method of manual targeting.

[Mk.32]

The Axis camera with a crosshair overlay is much more effective for manual then any kind of class 1 laser. The usual laser pointer you find is class 2, Class 1 eye safe lasers are defined as lasers that the human eye cannot or barely see.

[Brandon Holley]

The Cybersonics (FRC#103) used a laser (I'm assuming class I) as their alignment guide for shooting in both auto and teleop. They used a laser with some sort of optic to create a vertical line that would project onto the entire scoring hoop wall; just like a laser level you would use to hang a picture on a wall.

I was blown away by how effective they were at lining up their shots with just that laser. I looked for one that we could use as a fail safe if our camera was ever down in a match, and was unable to in my search. (Plenty of class II, unable to find class I)

Maybe someone from 103 will see this and help point us the right way.

-Brando

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by pwnageNick

Idk what team you found, but our team used a laser to assist with our auto-aim system on our shooter. The laser controlled the turret alignment. Once the drive train was in place, the turret would start on the right and sweep accross towards the left. When the laser hit the reflective tape, it would bounce back at itself. Once it sensed that, depending on where we were left to right on the key, that would determine how many more degrees the turret would rotate (using a potentiometer).

Here is our promo video that shows it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h55bFVPQbj8

By the time we got to Worlds, our auto-aim system was working very effectively. It took us a long time in the build season to find a good enough class I laser. The laser was also visible on the backboard so if we needed to go to manual mode for some reason, the drivers could use the laser as a guide.

Please ask any questions you have.

-Nick

To make it easier to find, at what point in the video is that being shown? Is it just at the 2:10ish mark for the automodes?

[akoscielski3]

The rule against laser pointers for aligning is for PRE-Match. It was (as far as I know) put in there so that teams weren't going to be using laser pointers and stuff to line up their robot last year for auto.

G02 is in the PRE-MATCH section of the rules, and is only used for before the match, not During the match.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by akoscielski3

The rule against laser pointers for aligning is for PRE-Match. It was (as far as I know) put in there so that teams weren't going to be using laser pointers and stuff to line up their robot last year for auto.

Actually, not quite. It was put in long before that so that teams wouldn't use laser pointers and stuff that wasn't part of the robot to line up their robot. You could use the stuff all you liked, but it had to be part of the robot.


One of the best alignment devices I've ever seen was 190's "Dean Device" from 2004. It was a laminated piece of paper in the shape of a hand with a finger pointing down. This piece of paper was velcroed to a particular wheel to straddle a line--the starting alignment that year was touching the wall and straddling the line. The robot was narrower than most for other reasons, but that little device worked pretty well for alignment...

[akoscielski3]

Originally Posted by EricH

Actually, not quite. It was put in long before that so that teams wouldn't use laser pointers and stuff that wasn't part of the robot to line up their robot. You could use the stuff all you liked, but it had to be part of the robot.

It's still only a rule for Pre-Match, correct? Even if its mounted on the robot, or not mounted.