Go to Post You dont get paid based on your IQ, or how many things you have memorized, or what you can invent on your feet. You get paid for results. - KenWittlief [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2012, 01:18
meicheng meicheng is offline
Electronics/Communications
FRC #1671 (Buchanan Bird Brains)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: California
Posts: 3
meicheng is an unknown quantity at this point
LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

Our LED isn't working, and we think it's because we put the PMW in the wrong place. The problem is that we don't know what "the right place" is. Does anyone know whether we have to connect the PMW to a certain place on the sidecar and, if we do have to, how we would know where exactly to connect it?

We don't think the LED issue is because of the Spike, because it has worked before and has a good fuse in it, and all of its wire connections are secure (except for the other end of the PMW). But the Spike flashes orange/yellow in time to a clicking noise when the fuse is still in and when we turn on the robot. Any ideas about what's wrong?

Any documents about PMWs, digital sidecars, and Spikes would be helpful.
__________________
Helen Cheng
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2012, 08:09
Mark McLeod's Avatar
Mark McLeod Mark McLeod is online now
Just Itinerant
AKA: Hey dad...Father...MARK
FRC #0358 (Robotic Eagles)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Hauppauge, Long Island, NY
Posts: 8,730
Mark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond reputeMark McLeod has a reputation beyond repute
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

A PWM cable connects a Spike to one of the Relay outputs on the Digital Sidecar. The Relays are labeled and the pins for them have a trough in front of them full of status lights that light up red & green when they are active.

Here is a description of the Digital Sidecar to help identify where the cable belongs.
The Spike documentation is way out of date.
__________________
"Rationality is our distinguishing characteristic - it's what sets us apart from the beasts." - Aristotle

Last edited by Mark McLeod : 09-11-2012 at 08:14.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-11-2012, 18:33
JohnChristensen's Avatar
JohnChristensen JohnChristensen is offline
Professional Sparkie
no team (No Team)
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 63
JohnChristensen is on a distinguished road
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

Spikes MUST be plugged into the relay ports on the Sidecar to work correctly. The constant clicking may be because of a "noisy" signal on a PWM output on the sidecar port if you don't have it connected in the relay section.

Last edited by JohnChristensen : 10-11-2012 at 17:16.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-11-2012, 01:42
meicheng meicheng is offline
Electronics/Communications
FRC #1671 (Buchanan Bird Brains)
Team Role: Electrical
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: California
Posts: 3
meicheng is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

I've plugged it into one randomly selected port of the relay ports on the sidecar. There is no clicking sound now, but there is no LED signal.

Does anyone know what's wrong now? We're already looking over our programming, but does anyone know any other probable causes?
__________________
Helen Cheng
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-11-2012, 22:17
JohnChristensen's Avatar
JohnChristensen JohnChristensen is offline
Professional Sparkie
no team (No Team)
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 63
JohnChristensen is on a distinguished road
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

The LEDs next to the relay port you are using on the sidecar should light up when triggered from your code. Is this occurring? If so you should focus your troubleshooting efforts on the spike. Is it powered and the PWM firmly seated in the housing? If so, your spike may be the problem.

If the LED on the sidecar does not light up, please verify that the sidecar is powered with 12V from the power distribution board. You may also want to investigate the possibility of a bad sidecar. We have had sections of this go dark before (usually as a result of poor metal shaving control). Do you have a second (working) sidecar you can swap in and try?

If none of these prompts led to a solution, could you post a couple pictures of your wiring. That way everyone can verify your connections. Good Luck.

Last edited by JohnChristensen : 20-11-2012 at 19:35. Reason: Added a couple questions
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-11-2012, 18:55
slijin's Avatar
slijin slijin is offline
Pockets
AKA: Samuel Lijin
FRC #0694 (StuyPulse)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: New York City
Posts: 537
slijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to behold
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

Quote:
Originally Posted by meicheng View Post
I've plugged it into one randomly selected port of the relay ports on the sidecar. There is no clicking sound now, but there is no LED signal.

Does anyone know what's wrong now? We're already looking over our programming, but does anyone know any other probable causes?
Make sure that the relay signal used in the programming corresponds to the right Spike output (the Spike has multiple output states).
__________________

2010-12 CT Chairman's
2011 Galileo 5th seed
2010 NY Regional Winners
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 22-11-2012, 19:10
kenavt's Avatar
kenavt kenavt is offline
Registered User
AKA: Colin S
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 253
kenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond reputekenavt has a reputation beyond repute
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

Quote:
Originally Posted by meicheng View Post
I've plugged it into one randomly selected port of the relay ports on the sidecar. There is no clicking sound now, but there is no LED signal.

Does anyone know what's wrong now? We're already looking over our programming, but does anyone know any other probable causes?
"Randomly selected"? You may have already considered this, but you have to place the PWM cable into a specific port (such as port #1), and then reference that specific port in your code as well. As others have said, LEDs will light up with different output states (as managed by your code) when the Digital Sidecar is trying to send signals to the Spike.
__________________
University of Michigan Computer Engineering '17

FRC 2337 student alumni (2010-2013)
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 23-12-2012, 03:58
Burbelm Burbelm is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Denver
Posts: 3
Burbelm is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

Quote:
Originally Posted by meicheng View Post
Our LED isn't working, and we think it's because we put the PMW in the wrong place. The problem is that we don't know what "the right place" is. Does anyone know whether we have to connect the PMW to a certain place on the sidecar and, if we do have to, how we would know where exactly to connect it?

We don't think the led lighting issue is because of the Spike, because it has worked before and has a good fuse in it, and all of its wire connections are secure (except for the other end of the PMW). But the Spike flashes orange/yellow in time to a clicking noise when the fuse is still in and when we turn on the robot. Any ideas about what's wrong?

Any documents about PMWs, digital sidecars, and Spikes would be helpful.
You need to take help of some expert and get it placed in right place

Last edited by Burbelm : 23-12-2012 at 23:48.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-12-2012, 00:31
Wildcats1378 Wildcats1378 is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: hawaii
Posts: 93
Wildcats1378 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

Can't you also use one of the solenoid ports to power an LED? We haven't done so, but I was thinking about trying that.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-12-2012, 13:19
RyanN's Avatar
RyanN RyanN is online now
RyanN
AKA: Ryan Nazaretian
FRC #4901 (Garnet Squadron)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,126
RyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcats1378 View Post
Can't you also use one of the solenoid ports to power an LED? We haven't done so, but I was thinking about trying that.
Can you? Yes.


Is it legal?

In 2012 2011, no...
Quote:
<R60> Solenoid Breakout outputs shall be connected to pneumatic valve solenoids or photoelectric
sensors, PN 42EF-D1MNAK-A2, only. No other devices shall be connected to these
outputs.


EDIT: This rule was for 2011, as Joe says below. I pulled up the wrong year on accident.
__________________
Garnet Squadron
FRC 4901
Controls Mentor
@rnazaretian

Previous mentor and student from Team Fusion, FRC 364

Last edited by RyanN : 31-12-2012 at 14:28. Reason: Fixed the rules.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-12-2012, 13:30
Joe Ross's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero
Joe Ross Joe Ross is offline
Registered User
FRC #0330 (Beachbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1997
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,560
Joe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond reputeJoe Ross has a reputation beyond repute
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanN View Post
Is it legal?

In 2012, no...
You quoted the 2011 rule. There was no such rule in 2012, which makes it legal. We'll see what 2013 brings.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 31-12-2012, 14:26
RyanN's Avatar
RyanN RyanN is online now
RyanN
AKA: Ryan Nazaretian
FRC #4901 (Garnet Squadron)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1,126
RyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross View Post
You quoted the 2011 rule. There was no such rule in 2012, which makes it legal. We'll see what 2013 brings.
Oops... clicked the wrong year. You're right, 2012 does not have this rule.

I remembered this rule because we were caught doing this during inspection. We had our Triangle, Circle, Square LED indicators which we wired to the solenoid breakout. We had to rewire it using Spikes. It was the stupidest rule, but a rule is a rule, and everyone has to follow them.
__________________
Garnet Squadron
FRC 4901
Controls Mentor
@rnazaretian

Previous mentor and student from Team Fusion, FRC 364

Last edited by RyanN : 31-12-2012 at 14:30.
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-01-2013, 19:35
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,766
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: LED Issue- PMW to Sidecar

We really try to hang onto rules that make sense but never assume they will stay that way. In a few days you will know for sure.
Al
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:47.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi