CNC Tooling

[James Tonthat]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cory again.

This is one of the best threads/posts I've seen on Chief in a long time.

[Andrew Remmers]

Originally Posted by James Tonthat

This is one of the best threads/posts I've seen on Chief in a long time.

Agreed saving this one!

[scottandme]

Don't forget about workholding and toolholders are Cory mentioned. Those are the big expenses up front. Bare minimum you want a step block kit and 1 or 2 good vises. Kurt is the standard, but we have two Glacern 615's (http://www.glacern.com/gpv_615) that have been great. About half the cost of the comparable Kurt (3600V), it gives you the ability to clamp the vise on it's side for tall parts. Jaw bolt pattern is the same as the Kurt's, so you can use any of the industry standard step jaws, v-jaws, soft jaws, etc.

Are you set for CAM software? That's the other big consideration for most teams. We use EdgeCAM since we use it in our PLTW classes, but MasterCAM is probably the most widely used package.

I don't see much use for any end mills over 1/2" - it puts a big load on the pull stud, and the TM machines don't have a ton of torque/HP to start with. Power output drops off at high spindle speeds you'll be using for aluminum. There are motor curve charts out there if you do a little googling. Peak torque for the TM-2 is at 1200RPM as per the Haas site. For frame rails, gearbox plates, and the like, there's really not a lot of need for a huge end mill.

Form taps are good for small threads (#4 & #6), but for bigger sizes I've never seen a big advantage. Spiral point taps (shoot the chips ahead of the tap) for through holes, spiral flute taps pull the chips up and out the flutes of the tap (for blind holes). Buy a bunch of the appropriate wire gauge pilot drills (#36,29,21,7) in short or stub length. We buy the "Heat-Resistant Cobalt Steel Short-Length Drill Bits" from McMaster (28765A57), Cobalt is unnecessary, but McMaster only has TiN and Black Oxide in short length HSS, and those are both bad for aluminum.

Get a mill/drill with a 90 degree tip. McMaster stocks those as well. They can do triple duty (drilling, spotting, and chamfering).

[qnetjoe]

Also give your local MSC and Sandvik Coromant reps a call. Over the years I have had reps arrange for a good amount of tooling; as some shops have tooling that they can not use for production that would work great for learning.

[MichaelBick]

For workholding we are thinking of getting 2 Kurt 3600V vises. Because the table on the TM-2P is so big I'm not sure if it would be beneficial to get 3 vises. I've heard good things about glacern too so we are still deciding between the twoo. Workholding seems like it is a very good area to invest in.

For CAM I've heard good things about mastercam from the CD community but our haas rep recommended gibbscam. I'm still not quite sure which one to get.

I found these drill bits on mcmaster: http://www.mcmaster.com/high-speed s...gth drill bits. They say good for steel, cast iron, and plastic and they are 118*, but I assume they will be fine.

Are 90* spotting driil okay? I've heard that your spotting angle should be bigger than your drill bit angle.

For toolholding I want to get at least 4 1/4" EM holders and 4 1/2" EM holders. I'm still not sure if I want to get 1/8", 3/16", and 3/8" EM holders. I want 14-16 ER16 tool holders, 1 drill chuck, and 1-2 face mill arbors.

[Mk.32]

Originally Posted by MICHAELABICK

For workholding we are thinking of getting 2 Kurt 3600V vises. Because the table on the TM-2P is so big I'm not sure if it would be beneficial to get 3 vises. I've heard good things about glacern too so we are still deciding between the twoo. Workholding seems like it is a very good area to invest in.

For CAM I've heard good things about mastercam from the CD community but our haas rep recommended gibbscam. I'm still not quite sure which one to get.

I found these drill bits on mcmaster: http://www.mcmaster.com/high-speed s...gth drill bits. They say good for steel, cast iron, and plastic and they are 118*, but I assume they will be fine.

Are 90* spotting driil okay? I've heard that your spotting angle should be bigger than your drill bit angle.

Having used both gibbs and MasterCAM, I would definitely prefer MasterCAM, personally found it easier to use and it's industry standard. Also for my quick and basic stuff [most of it] I use HSMXpress it's a CAM plugin that integrates into SW [inventor soon to come, Autodesk just brought them] and for 2.5D milling operations is completely FREE.

For tooling such as drill bits, you should just really start with some cheap/basic bits and work your way up. Find what you like and would use the most often then buy good ones of those. For drill bits HSS bright finish bits will work fine and you probably wouldn't really notice a difference between 118 and 135 degree points, again get some and try them and see what you like. Everyone prefers a little different tooling.

For when we had access/used a HAAS machine, it was a mini mill with the 10 tool ATC. It was loaded with an edgefinder, facemill, drill/countersink [used a spot], and then the rest were all CAT40 ER20 holders. A full set of collects going from 1/32 all the way up to 1/2 was used for an endmills and drill bits, we kept the common sized endmills/drill bits in the machine [1/4, 1/2, drills for taps, etc] and then used the left over tool changer spots to load up uncommon drill bits/endmills for whatever part we were working on. For the common sizes we had extra collets for so we could run more the one size tool at a time. With this setup we really didn't have to change out tools to often. However the machine was not ours and often was switched out between jobs.

Also do you guys have an mentor/teacher that is onsite that can help you guys get setup with the HAAS? The HAAS control software isn't terribly hard to learn but having an expert with you is a great asset.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by MICHAELABICK

For CAM I've heard good things about mastercam from the CD community but our haas rep recommended gibbscam. I'm still not quite sure which one to get.

We sat through live demos of about 5 different CAM programs and settled on OneCNC XR5 for many reasons. We haven't used it extensively yet, but it has a great feature set, pricing, and support. You can PM me about it. I haven't used MasterCAM since version X, which was rather buggy and somewhat painful to use. I've heard it's gotten much better. I tried GibbsCAM years ago and hated it, and I've heard similar stories from others.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by MICHAELABICK

For workholding we are thinking of getting 2 Kurt 3600V vises. Because the table on the TM-2P is so big I'm not sure if it would be beneficial to get 3 vises. I've heard good things about glacern too so we are still deciding between the twoo. Workholding seems like it is a very good area to invest in.

For CAM I've heard good things about mastercam from the CD community but our haas rep recommended gibbscam. I'm still not quite sure which one to get.

I found these drill bits on mcmaster: http://www.mcmaster.com/high-speed s...gth drill bits. They say good for steel, cast iron, and plastic and they are 118*, but I assume they will be fine.

Are 90* spotting driil okay? I've heard that your spotting angle should be bigger than your drill bit angle.

For toolholding I want to get at least 4 1/4" EM holders and 4 1/2" EM holders. I'm still not sure if I want to get 1/8", 3/16", and 3/8" EM holders. I want 14-16 ER16 tool holders, 1 drill chuck, and 1-2 face mill arbors.

4 each of 1/4" and 1/2" end mill holders is a lot. We only have 2 of each. You don't want to use a solid holder for 1/8" end mills. Any runout will destroy the tool in short order. Use a collet.

14-16 is a lot. It's taken us 5 years to accumulate that many and our machine can hold more tools. I don't know that I'd start out with so many. I'd also add a few ER-32's. You're going to want them to hold any drills/end mills over 1/2", or even 3/8" for rigidity purposes.

I don't really see a need for 2 face mills-just get one that takes standard inserts that are available for ferrous and non-ferrous materials. I'd rather have 2 drill chucks.

The drills you found are fine. 90* spot drills are fine.

The more vises you get the better. 3 vises means you're 50% more productive if you're making multiple parts. I would buy 4 of the Glacern 3600V clones over 2 3600V's.

Again, all of this comes back to your budget. This is all a "price is no object" list without one. If it's tight, lots of things I've suggested can be cut back to the bare minimum to get up and running.