The FIRST Choice Value Coefficient

[seg9585]

I was especially looking forward to FIRST Choice this year because I was intrigued with the fact that the retail (or perceived) dollar value vs point cost of items varied greatly. Needless to say, other teams catch on to this and the products with the highest value-to-cost items are sold out first.

This intrigued me to assign a FIRST Choice Value Coefficient (FCVC) to know which items to spring for first. On the other hand, even with a high FCVC some of the products wouldn't come as in handy as others (ie if you already have a part and don't need multiples).

In your opinion, which products this year had the highest FCVC?

For example:
Talon SC $59 / 9 points = 6.56
Geforce GTX 560: $190 / 5 points = 38.8
Rubber Latex Tube 5': $2 / 3 points = 0.67
Foam Basketballs $7.99 / 8 points = 1
12V Battery: $40 / 10 points = 4

[dcarr]

cRIO must be pretty high up there - however, I don't know what the true value of the 8-slot unit is. The 4 slot is $285 by itself from NI.

[seg9585]

The 8-slot cRio also has a slightly older processor, just a bit slower (this is a factor for image processing). And it's chassis is of course heavier. HAving said that, its probably similar in value.

Playing by Moneyball rules, I wonder if anyone maximized their FCVC by seriously purchasing 20 Geforce GTX 560's.

[ming08108]

Yeah I was a bit confused when a 20mm fan cost more than a GTX 560.

This is my first year so this is what we got (Hopefully they don't cancel our order)
1. 12v battery.
2. 2 Talons
3. 2 GTX 560's (Selling maybe)
4. One 3d printing voucher

Any comments we are new to this competition, still have ~50 credits left, anything else worth getting?

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by seg9585

The 8-slot cRio also has a slightly older processor, just a bit slower (this is a factor for image processing). And it's chassis is of course heavier. HAving said that, its probably similar in value.

Playing by Moneyball rules, I wonder if anyone maximized their FCVC by seriously purchasing 20 Geforce GTX 560's.

sanddrag over in the FIRST Choice thread ended up doing this because everything was out of stock at the time he ordered. I'm assuming to unlock the value the team will need to sell the cards, which, while feasible, is an extra hassle and not really the intention of how FIRST Choice is supposed to work.

[Kevin Sevcik]

I question your premise. The GeForce cards obviously have a very high FCVC, but what on earth would I do with 20 GeForce video cards? Sell them on eBay to raise funds for my team? If so, the FCVC is likely to be significantly lower.

This goes double for the cRIO, which is unlikely to be useful outside of the FRC context. So while there's probably some correlation between FCVC and items that sold out quickly, I think there's likely a better correlation between an items utility to a generic FRC team. In other words, teams likely would make a list of items useful to them, and then rank those useful items by their FCVC. Leaving a lot of high FCVC items with little interest.

At least, that's how I ranked things for our team.

[seg9585]

Kevin -- I agree completely, there needs to be another normalizing factor involved.
Firstly, I wouldn't plan to use any of the equipment I get from FIRST Choice outside of FRC, so the cRio is back on the table wrt its usefulness. As you said, I wouldn't have much use for 20 video cards (or even 2), but I ordered 3 Talons since they have a decent FCVC and we always need more.

I asked the question because I was wondering if others saw something on the list that has more value than meets the eye. It's a bit of work to research the retail cost of every bearing, pneumatics, or motor part on the list, and most of these items are on an "as-needed" basis anyway.

Having said that, in all my excitement over the Talons, cRio, etc, I forgot about the 2x package of optical encoders on the list, and they are $40 each on AndyMark (with the wire and mount) before they sold out.

[McGurky]

Originally Posted by dcarr

sanddrag over in the FIRST Choice thread ended up doing this because everything was out of stock at the time he ordered. I'm assuming to unlock the value the team will need to sell the cards, which, while feasible, is an extra hassle and not really the intention of how FIRST Choice is supposed to work.

While I cannot speak on his behalf, he is a teacher, and as most schools IT budgets are not the best, he could outfit an entire lab with much improved Graphics with those!

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by McGurky

While I cannot speak on his behalf, he is a teacher, and as most schools IT budgets are not the best, he could outfit an entire lab with much improved Graphics with those!

That would be pretty sweet (assuming the PSU's can all handle it). A full lab of capable CAD machines.

When NVidia handed out the GTX-480's a while back we put together a CAD machine for the classroom we work in, it was nice to have the most expensive component taken care of.

[sanddrag]

The GTX 560 is a nice card, but not a CAD card and not certified for Inventor.

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

The GTX 560 is a nice card, but not a CAD card and not certified for Inventor.

I've seen Inventor running smoothly on our GTX 480. For the uninformed (read: I'm a programmer, not a CAD guy), what qualifies a "certified" card for Inventor?

If it's anything like the Adobe products (Premiere, After Effects, CS6) they only certify a few cards but changing one line in a configuration file enables acceleration on most recent NVidia cards. .

[Tom Line]

I sent an email out to a fellow mentor exactly about this.

The cRIO was certain high up on the list, but you were only allowed one.
The classmate (newer version) was high up on the list.
The right angle drill was also very high up on the list.

That's strictly efficiencies though. Or dollars / point if you like. As someone else in this thread already said, you also need to include the difficulty of getting rid of the items for said price if you don't intend to use them. The right angle drill will probably be much easier than the classmate, and will certainly hold it's value better.

Anyone want to create a weighted objective table for this?

My wife just looked over my shoulder, shook her head, and said "Only engineers...."

[connor.worley]

Originally Posted by dcarr

what qualifies a "certified" card for Inventor?

Looks like Quadro and FirePro cards.

[Moriarty]

For our team personally, the graphics card was a perfect item on our wishlist! In previous years we have run completely off of 5 or 6 year old dell laptops that have no battery life and take 10 minutes to boot.

We had just decided on building a basic desktop to handle tasks within the team, and FIRST Choice offering a decent graphics card was the perfect opportunity -- This goes to show that choice and value is team specific and I think is the purpose of FIRST Choice -- to put these donated things out there in case they match the specific needs of a team

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by connor.worley

Looks like Quadro and FirePro cards.

Does that mean that Inventor won't touch the GPU otherwise? I find that impossible to believe based on my own observations of it running on different systems.