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#61
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
Aside from the leading zeros error (which is a result of insufficient testing -- all teams experience this somewhere), I think the problems boil down to a lack of limits on parts in FIRST Choice and an inconsistent $ to credit ratio (individual team value functions aside).
Having some items where the $/cr ratio is 40+ and others where it is around 1 creates an imbalanced supply/demand. My team opted for a right angle drill, axis camera, and several solenoid valves among a few other things because those were high value items which we needed and/or very likely going to use. We actually did not order the talon controlers, even though we plan on buying some to test out because their $/cr ratio was only 6.56 vs nearly everything we ordered, which was over $8/cr. Having used 9 motors on the previous year's robot, I certainly understand the desire of teams to get as many motor controllers as possible. I think 4 is a reasonable limit for "free" I'm not in favor of a lottery approach to distribution, as this can really mess up a team's flow of ordering parts that will work together in a system. Fairness is a term that gets thrown around in many different arenas, but fair to one person may not seem fair to another. All teams receive the same point value, but their $ value is not the same. Maybe it's not fair that some teams can just buy items they didn't get while other cash-strapped teams have to make due. Is it fair to pull back an order that was "shipped" to a team who had no control over other team's ordering issues? tl;dr make the point values correlate to real prices. put limits on items. |
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#62
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
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I'm not suggesting that ANYONE should have done anything different in terms of ordering what they thought they needed or was valuable - the system was set up to encourage that. The problem is that it leaves many, many teams out in. My suggestion is this: 1. Make the credit value reflect street price/value to FRC teams (discounts are great, but no need to make a $200 Classmate the same credits as a $15 wire stripper) 2. Let the system "go live" one week after ship date. This is to discourage teams from ordering stuff on spec. 3. Include the cost of the items in the BOM (and raise the total allowance if necessary). - Mr. Van Coach, Roboox |
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#63
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
Regardless of the issues with FIRST Choice, this is still way better than how things used to be way back when. I'm just glad to get some useful equipment and parts for FREE.
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#64
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
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Edit: Just got another email saying my second order has shipped, so clearly AM is still trying to catch up with all the orders. Last edited by Tom Line : 11-12-2012 at 16:24. |
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#65
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
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FIRST Choice is not FREE. You can only access it if you have paid your registration fee. Yes, these items are donated, but so are many of the items that actually get shipped in the KOP. In fact, it is my understanding that according to all of the rules, the FIRST Choice items are an extension of the KOP, such as it is, and we have all paid for access to them. The problem is that it is far from equal access at this point. I do have confidence that both FIRST and AndyMark will improve the system. - Mr. Van Coach, Robodox |
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#66
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
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Just like many other teams, those of us in Ontario need to save every little bit we can due to the current problems with the Province and Teachers. Losing out high demand and costly items from First choice is going to make it very hard to field an competitive robot this year. Why you ask, because the teachers are now on work to rule which leaves the running of the team by outside mentors that's assuming the school admins will agree to it. Last edited by whcirobotics : 11-12-2012 at 19:10. |
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#67
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
Teams adversely effected by Inventory Management Issues should contact frcparts@usfirst.org.
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#68
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
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#69
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
Perhaps FIRST will take some action for teams <1000 who were unable to log-in to FIRST Choice?
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#70
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
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The only thing I think FIRST can do is make every item from FIRST Choice free for every team in the BOM. Peyton |
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#71
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
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That doesn't really help all teams though... the teams that don't have the funds to purchase some of the items that were available through FIRST Choice are the ones who will feel this the most. It doesn't matter if it becomes free in the BOM if you could never afford it in the first place. FIRST is taking steps to make things right... we lost half of our order to the restocking issues, and FIRST is offering help with some common items. I got this email the other day after I responded with having troubles with the system: Hello Mr. Basse, Thank you for your response. Again, please accept our apologies for your frustrations. To compensate, we offer your choice of one of the following items at no cost to you (dollar or credit): Power Distribution Board, E12 Classmate, 4-slot cRIO chassis (no modules), battery, or Rev B radio. Due to our limited inventory, we can only accommodate so many requests of particular items. For that reason, please let us know your first and second picks. We'll do our best to give you your first pick and the item will ship for free (FedEx Ground or track-able USPS). Take your time discussing this with your team, but please let us know your decision by January 25, 2013 (but if you let us know by December 28, you should have it by Kickoff). Thank you for your understanding. Kate --- Kate Pilotte Kudos to FIRST for taking steps to lessen the burden on teams that were adversely effected. I am happy to be a part of an organization that recognizes the need that teams have and respects the entry fee that we all pay does indeed need to be respected. With that said, we will take the cheapest option on the list because it is what we need. We would have suffered without a battery to make it through the season, and it seems like a small price for an item but when $70 buys you two batteries and that is a around 10% of your budget... I just hope this will result in less of a chance of me or our lead mentor footing the bill for our robot build personally again. With the way Michigan politics are going, I need to keep a close eye on my paychecks... Last edited by MrBasse : 12-12-2012 at 09:46. Reason: removed contact info at request of FIRST |
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#72
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
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-Clinton- |
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#73
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
FIRST is going above and beyond when they offer free items like that. It's great to work with an organization that not only acknowledges mistakes, but works so diligently to take responsibility for them and to correct them.
That said, I think we (the teams who are consumers of FIRST Choice) need to be careful in our complaints. I've seen many posts that are some variant of "we lost our order due to the restocking problem". That happened to me, too. But it is important to understand that we didn't actually lose an order, because we never had it. If the restocking problem had not occurred, the order would have been rejected to begin with. We only "lost" an order compared to our mistaken belief that we had an order. It is possible (but I bet a careful analysis of the data would show this only happened to a few teams) that the restocking issue caused a loss in this limited scenario: You were considering ordering two items, one that is close to going out of stock, and one that incorrectly appears to have stock but is actually out. You only have enough credits to get one, and you choose the one that is actually out of stock, and that order is (incorrectly) accepted. By the time you find out that your order must be canceled, the other part has gone out of stock. You've lost out on that order. I'd be curious to find out how many teams actually experienced that. Where some of us actually lost orders was due to not being able to log in for the first 10 to 15 minutes, so stock was gone before we had a chance to place the order. In that case, there is a reasonable possibility that we could have gotten a valid order in, had we been able to log in at the correct time. That happened to my team, and I have sent an email to FIRST (in response to Kate's email sent out yesterday). It will be interesting to see if they can do anything about it. It's also been great to see all the constructive suggestions for a better system, on this and other threads. I bet we'll see a much improved FIRST Choice next year. Keep up the great work, everybody! |
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#74
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
I think part of the problem was that items were not removed from stock when placed into a cart, only when the pay now button was clicked, causing items to jump out of carts. The items should be removed from available inventory as soon as it was placed into a cart. If items get dropped later and put back "on the shelf", then someone else has the opportunity to pick it up. I suspect this would be an easy way to reduce some of frustration faced by teams.
Wetzel |
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#75
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Re: FRC Blogged - FIRST Choice Issue (And Part II)
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