Registration 2013

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

Fast growing regions like Texas, California and Washington have all expanded their events:

Texas: 2009 - 2 events, 2013 - 3 events
California: 2009 - 4 events, 2013 - 6 events
Washington: 2009 - 1 event, 2013 - 3 events

This means that those states/regions are qualifying more teams through regionals than they were several years ago, proportional to the team growth in the state. Michigan is not, because they have been fixed at 18 slots since 2009, regardless of the team growth and increase in the number of districts in the state.

You left Minnesota off your list... 2 events in 2009, 4 events in 2013. I firmly believe we'll move to a district model sometime in the next couple of years. I doubt it'll happen for 2014 though - we need to build up the volunteer base a lot more to support the number of events a district system has. Maybe after we add one or two more regionals!

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

To give one area more slots, means that some other area must lose slots.
Regionals as an entity unto themselves would need adjustment to qualify fewer teams.
You can't just think to add slots-poor economics.

Wow, thanks for bringing us back to reality. When you think about it that way, it would seem like FIRST's hands are tied. No one wants to take away the championship qualification from one of the regional awards, but with the end of open Championship registration, it looks like FIRST thinks 400 teams is already too many. I would agree that this type of change will probably come with the addition of more district systems.

[Clinton Bolinger]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

To give one area more slots, means that some other area must lose slots.
Regionals as an entity unto themselves would need adjustment to qualify fewer teams.
You can't just think to add slots-poor economics.

Currently the 400 spots at championship does not have this issue (yet).

2013 Total Events = 76
2013 FiM Events = 11
2013 MAR Events = 7
2013 Regionals = 58 = 76-11-7

Slots at Champs = 400
FiM CMP Slots = 18
MAR CMP Slots = 12
Regional Slots = 348 = 58 * 6
Remaining Slots = 22 = 400-348-18-12

But we are approaching that point very soon.

-Clinton-

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Clinton Bolinger

Currently the 400 spots at championship does not have this issue (yet).

2013 Total Events = 76
2013 FiM Events = 11
2013 MAR Events = 7
2013 Regionals = 58 = 76-11-7

Slots at Champs = 400
FiM CMP Slots = 18
MAR CMP Slots = 12
Regional Slots = 348 = 58 * 6
Remaining Slots = 22 = 400-348-18-12

But we are approaching that point very soon.

-Clinton-

+17 Hall of Fame
+ 5 Original and sustaining teams (not already in the Hall of Fame)
=
400

We're there. In fact, we're over capacity given the 2012 Einstein resolution. Only declines and double qualification will keep it at or under 400.

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by Jared341

+17 Hall of Fame
+ 5 Original and sustaining teams (not already in the Hall of Fame)
=
400

We're there. In fact, we're over capacity given the 2012 Einstein resolution. Only declines and double qualification will keep it at or under 400.

And then Wildcards will push it right up again...

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by dcarr

And then Wildcards may push it up to or over again...

Wildcards can't push it over, since they are simply taking the slot of a double-qualified team. It will reduce the number of "empty" slots due to double-qualified teams.

But the raw facts are that as it stands, close to 400 teams will qualify or have already qualified for Championships, without any waitlist or open registration.

[scottandme]

Originally Posted by dcarr

And then Wildcards may push it up to or over again...

Wildcards can only consume the slots allocated for in the math above, and only for teams that have previously won an event (not CA/RAS/EI). I forget the exact numbers, but FIRST published data that said the acceptance rate to attend CMP was much higher last year than previously seen. I think they said something like 85-90% of qualified teams ended up attending, which was higher than historical precedent suggested.

That's the likely cause for the elimination of open registration slots (along with general growing pains outlined above). FIRST wants to have a good idea of exactly how many qualified teams are going to attend before accepting non-award winners. Just like college acceptances and waitlists.

There are 33 teams currently registered for CMP (HOF, Sustaining, Einstein). There are 378 more spots possible across the 58 regionals/MI/MAR. So assuming that everyone accepts, the currently registered teams don't win a banner, and there are no double winners (CA/RAS/EI & Regional, etc), that's 411 teams. I may be fuzzy on the wildcard slots, but I think it only applies to a team that previously won an event, not preregistration or CA/EI/RAS.

I think we'll be comfortably under 400 teams qualifying, even a 90% conversion of those 378 possible slots gives us 373 teams at CMP. Then it all comes down to how many teams FIRST actually wants at CMP.

Does anyone have data (Mark?) for how many teams preregistered for CMP last year?

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

Wildcards can't push it over, since they are simply taking the slot of a double-qualified team. It will reduce the number of "empty" slots due to double-qualified teams.

But the raw facts are that as it stands, close to 400 teams will qualify or have already qualified for Championships, without any waitlist or open registration.

What I meant but not what I wrote

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by scottandme

Does anyone have data (Mark?) for how many teams preregistered for CMP last year?

142, but many of those pre-registered teams actually dropped out.
So really, 113 teams that competed at Championship pre-registered, some were HOF, original/sustaining teams, previous year's champs, and many others later qualified through competition.

P.S.
A little more detail for those interested in this sort of thing:

• 31 of the 113 pre-registered teams ended up also qualifying through competition or as HOF, etc.
• 82 pre-registered teams (the rest of the 113) got to CMP without otherwise qualifying.
• 95 teams were pulled from the waitlist without otherwise qualifying.

So 177 non-qualifying teams went to Championships.
If we apply that to this season (and I haven't miscounted something)...
177 (slots)
- 9 for extra Einstein teams
- 48 = 8*6 for new Regionals
----------------------
120 teams may get in off the waitlist (give or take circumstances).

[AlexD744]

I have a feeling that due to the ending of open registration, acceptance rates for Championship will climb even higher. Imagine being faced with the decision to go or not go when you can't just register again next year. Albeit, not every team will accept, but I bet it will be over 90%.

[Mark McLeod]

Registration for a third MAR District opened yesterday.
Seems to be lots of room available, but since all but one event is at the waitlist stage, I suppose that the RD will be filtering teams onto the event lists.

Only one team (1279) appeared on a third event so far. That seems to be because they signed up for the sole remaining District that hasn't reached initial capacity and so got right on the list.

Three teams (1617,2070, 4373) are still only shown as registered for a single District event.
For comparison, FiM has 80 teams that haven't been assigned a second District event yet.

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by Hallry

... do you have any updated info of what percentage of teams are going to each number of competitions (1 event, 2 events, etc.)? Specifically, teams not in district models? I know the percentage of MAR teams attending outside regionals is 10.9%, and I don't believe any are signed up for more than 2 districts.

Sorry, I got distracted by Xmas shopping and forgot to respond to this question.

For ALL events (Regional/District/CMP) these are the current counts (give or take - event lists are still volatile) :
Note: not all District teams are registered for two events yet.

• 4 events - 13 teams (0.5%)
• 3 events - 57 teams (2.2%)
• 2 events - 782 teams (30.4%)
• 1 event - 1717 teams (66.8%)

For Regional-Only teams:

• 4 events - 6 (0.3%)
• 3 events - 41 (1.8%)
• 2 events - 580 (25.7%)
• 1 event - 1626 (72.2%)

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by scottandme

Wildcards can only consume the slots allocated for in the math above, and only for teams that have previously won an event (not CA/RAS/EI)... I may be fuzzy on the wildcard slots, but I think it only applies to a team that previously won an event, not preregistration or CA/EI/RAS.

You're close. First, a team must qualify for the Championship this season, meaning they win an event or one of the qualifying awards. Then, they must be a winner of a subsequent event, which triggers the wildcard process, in which a Championship bid is extended to one finalist team. This will usually be the alliance captain, but will move to the first pick if the alliance captain has themselves already qualified for Championships, and can further move down to the other finalists for the same reason. Only one finalist team can get this bid, and if that team declines it, the wildcard slot goes unused. Hope that clears things up a little.

[dcarr]

Originally Posted by PVCpirate

Only one finalist team can accept this bid

Where did you get that from? I don't see it detailed here:

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...T-Championship

[PVCpirate]

Originally Posted by dcarr

Where did you get that from? I don't see it detailed here:

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...T-Championship

From that blog post:

If a team who wins a Regional in 2013 – in other words, if a team who is a member of the Winning Alliance – has already qualified for Championship at an earlier Regional in 2013, a ‘Wild Card’ slot is created at the Regional which they just won. Wild Card slots are filled in the order of Finalist Alliance Captain, Finalist First Pick, Finalist Second Pick, and Finalist Backup Team. Wild Card slots are passed to the next team in order only if the team occupying that Wild Card slot has, itself, already qualified for Championship at an earlier Regional in 2013. The number of potential Wild Card slots created at each Regional is equal to the number of teams on the winning alliance who had already qualified for Championship at an earlier Regional in 2013. Only teams on the Finalist Alliance are eligible for Wild Card slots. It’s possible for a Wild Card slot to go unused, and unused Wild Card slots will not be replaced or backfilled.

(Emphasis mine)
What I meant was if 1 already-qualified team wins the event, only 1 team is given the opportunity to go to Championships. This team is the first finalist team which has not yet qualified, going in order from alliance captain to backup team. Since the slot only gets passed down the order for this reason, if the slot is offered to the alliance captain, the other teams on the alliance cannot get it, even if the alliance captain declines to attend.