Iraq Draft

[DanLevin247]

War....what is it good for? Absolutley nothin'!


I think that the United States has this wee little problem with butting into the business of other nations, playing the "older, stronger sibling". We send our soldiers to fight the wars of others, and end up with unnecessary casualities. We are, in fact, prisoners of our own democracy, the goverment can decide your fate for you, ain't that fun? If we let this issue drop, the middle east would adventually self destruct by itself. Blah Blah, UN Agreement this, UN agreement that, if we stay out of it, Saddam will end up wiping out everybody..."Yay Allah! I've cleansed the world, wait....where is everyone?" Innocent people may die, and do die as a result of war. We have a national debt that ads up to more than the amount of currency in the world, and a president who is often incapable of simply reading a speach that his advisor has provided him with because it doesn't have the big words spelled phonetically. A vice presdient who barley exists, how many people even know what he looks like? You'd think that he'd be off wallpapering his undisclosed location, but still, he's a part of our goverment, and it's not good when our supposed "leaders" are in hiding, or on "vaccation"....If there is a draft, I'll step up, I'm willing to fight, not for my country, but for what's right, and the values I uphold as an "american citizen". If we have to resort to another draft, it's pretty sad, young american lives gone to "waste", because our country needs more fingers to pull the triggers of the machine guns that rip the flesh of people who's only goal is to die in the name of their god, sending a bullet into their body would only give them a sence of accomplishment. Yes, we are the most powerful nation in the world, yes, we have to power to flatten any ressistance we are confronted with, but No, it's not always necessary.



And thats my 34 cent stamp

[Reed B.]

Moral diplomacy is such a wonderful concept, isn't it?
Unfortunately, as Woodrow Wilson found out, it doesn't work. Take North Korea. They promised not to build any nukes if we gave them money, and gee, guess what they did.

I saw an online cartoon once. In the first panel, it showed Colin Powell and a Middle Eastern man sitting down and discussing their problems. In the second panel, it showed Colin Powell trying to talk while the ME man screamed "JIHAD! JIHAD!"
The second panel was reality, unfortunately.

The truth is, that America is not liked for who we are. We COULD conform to the way the rest of the world wants us to conform, particularly some sections of the Middle East, but frankly I don't think everyone wants to be forcibly converted to Islam, nor do women want to be forced to wear burqas and stoned for adultery.

Also, while some countries do have legitimate grievances with the US (Turkey lost 10 billion dollars in trade with Iraq during the Gulf War), a lot of them give their countrymen excuses to hate something else. I don't like the royalty of Saudi Arabia, because they're shooting their country straight down the john.

With Iraq, however, I'd like nothing more than to see Saddam die a slow, painful death. However, unless the White House has hard evidence against Saddam, I believe that North Korea should be dealt with first.

As far as playing big brother goes: most countries whine about our influence, yet when something happens, they scream at us to do something about it.

[MRL180YTL2002]

Let's take a look at this.....

You join up, serve for 20 years. You retire on half pay which ain't much. Now Congress...they have all the perks and make money 150,000 who can send you out in a declared war and get you killed. SO send congress over to fight. I"m 17, I'll turn 18 next year when I'm hopefully in college. I don't want to fight, especially for the U.S. as the U.S. passed the Chinese Exclusion Act in the late 1800s. Now why should I as someone who is of Chinese decent fight for a country who didn't want us here in the first place? There is no point in war. War is sadness and pain, etc...further haven't we have enough WIA, MIA, and KIA already. Here's a song from World War II......

We're the fighting bastards of Bataan,
We ain't got no poppa,
no Uncle Sam,
and nobody gives a damm,

.....its when the Phillipines fell to the Japanese.

[EddieMcD]

I don't think there will be a draft. We all have to remember that there are about 5 million reserve troops that will go into battle before people even think about a draft.

Now on the subject of the actual war (if there is any at all), I personally wouldn't serve even if drafted, and I'd find some way to dodge it (I hear Canada is nice this time of year). It's not that I'm against fighting for what I believe in, it's that I'm not too big on this cause. I personally feel we shouldn't even be in the middle east. We should pull out and let the British do all the work. They'd probably do a better job.

Finally, to quote Robet Heinlein "Violence has solved everything throughout history." IMO, it's animal nature to violently settle our disputes, and it's not going to change. Heinlein was disputing the quote "Violence doesn't solve anything". The fact is, fighting is never going to stop. War has always solved problems. Chances are, Baghdad (sp?) will recieve the bombing of a lifetime. It's not right, it's not wrong, it's just nature.

[nkrumm]

Now, you might not realize that the idea of the draft was actually proposed by a Democrat. Why? Arent Dem's supposed to be liberal peace lovers?

Well, this same democrat is also the only congressman to have a child in the armed forces. So you migh say that he wants fairness-- afterall we all live here, we should all fight right?

But it goes further than that. For the vast majority of Americans, expecially Congress and President, it is much too simple to go to war. Simply issue a few orders, and we've got 150,000 troops in Iraq, with more on the way. 48 hours of bombing later, thousands of casualities (not to mention Iraqi deaths, estimated at over 500,000--but thats a different topic), and perhaps a small exchange of WMDs, we win the war.

Easy, right?

Well, what if YOU had to fight? changes things around a bit. suddenly, its not so easy...
This is why Rep. Rangel (D-NY) proposed the idea... to make people aware of what war REALLY is (looks like CD is pretty anti-war, so wont explain why war is a horrible act of mankind)
Rangel says, "I believe that if those calling for war knew that their children were likely to serve - and to be placed in harm's way - there would be more caution and a greater willingness to work with the international community." The Source

So, by suggesting the draft, Rangel is actually opposing war. (He was one of the mere TWO representatives that voted agaisnt the War Powers Act several months ago.)

Thanks for listening,
Nik

(my first post!)

[johnscans]

the draft is the worst idea i have ever heard. ths simple way to solve it is taht ppl who dont go to college or hold a steady job are enlisted, no questions asked, bye-bye crime, bye-bye drugs. and for those murdereres in jail, they wanan kill? send them over and have tem do some good

johnscans

[MRL180YTL2002]

Originally posted by EddieMcD
Chances are, Baghdad (sp?) will recieve the bombing of a lifetime. It's not right, it's not wrong, it's just nature.

Yeah, they'll knock out the air force, then the air defenses (SAMs and AAA)...pound them enough so you could fly across that country in a Cessena. B-52's are a little big unless you're carpet bombing troop positions....rubble and debris create more headaches (In World War II, a German Airborne divison at this monastry turned into a pile of rubble turned into an even better defensive location) as ambushes, mines, booby traps, etc.. are a ta easier to disguise. Sniper's playground. I'm digressing. A draft would provoke the Vietnam generation, especially those anti-draft groups. The Vietnam generation also is the majority that Bush is trying to appeal to them to support him but they also have flashbacks to their own experience.

[157#1Driver]

Does any one even know what the rules are of the draft? Like do they take the oldest people first? If your in college are you an exception? What?

[SiliconKnight]

On a humorous note...

I wonder how well, "Hey, can my boyfriend come over for conjugal visits while I'm in bootcamp" would work... for draft dodging :-D

-=- Terence

#standard disclaimer
I'm straight but not narrow. When fighting an enemy, best to know and exploit your enemy's weakness, no?

[MRL180YTL2002]

age, college grades, certain medical conditions....you'll find out of they have one. You can always look it up in a book on the Vietnam War Draft. Actually if I get a draft card, I think I'll either go to Canada, or go down to the Air Force recruiting depot and sign on.
a) navy...if your ship goes down, you could be swimming for a while
b) army...sorry, I hate being out in the boonies
c) marines...I ain't that tough...beside why would you want to be first on the beach?
d) Grandfather is a Korean War Veteran of the USAF. GO AIR FORCE!
if you volunter (and make sure before your draft summon date), you can actually pick your branch of service. Besides, if you have to go...go in the branch of your choice. By the way, my classmates are already planning on what countries to flee to.

[GILLIGAN!!!!!!!]

Viewing this forum is the first time i have been truly disgusted in a long time. All this talk about dodging the draft, and how stupid the government is. Look at who the hell you people are, you are American kids that get to enjoy about every single freedom in this earth. The very fact you live in America allows you to say what you all are saying about this country. Honestly, if you run to Canada, I hope you stay there for one very long time, because if you run there, I do not want you the hell back in my country. You cannot run from every single problem, it is the stupidity of the general population of America that brought this war on in the first place. People were so naive, and did not even know who Osama was, not even when he was bombing the Cole or attacking the Kenyan embassy. So for you to just turn tail and run to Canada might solve your problem, but where do you run when there are cells in every country, waiting for the order to make 9/11 look like a kindergarten graduation.

[GILLIGAN!!!!!!!]

Wow! it feels good to get that rant off my chest!

[MRL180YTL2002]

I point to history....the Chinese Exclusion Act passed by Congress in the 1800s. The Chinese are the only ETHNIC and RACIAL group to be barred entry into the United States. Why should I fight for a country who said no to my ancestors and family? You tell me that? Why do we the United States have to DICTATE to the rest of the world what they can or cannot do? Notice, we are the ONLY country to use NUCLEAR weapons in armed conflict. All military officiers and enlisted men alike swear to uphold, support and defend the Constitution of the United States and to obey the orders of the officiers appointed over me. You point to freedoms....I see no where that Iraq has attacked our freedoms. Yes, orders have been signed to move troops to the Persain Gulf should ther be a war with Iraq and military personnel obey. The freedoms you point too....the military is to defend that piece of paper which states our rights as citizens of the U.S.. And for your information, we have no right to DICTATE what people in this world can do. Why do you think the world resents the U.S. despite all the positive things the U.S. has done for the word, things like the Marshall Plan, foreign aid in terms of food, medical supplies, emergency workers for disaster relief, you name it....we've always been the first to provide (well offer it, some nations like Russia with the Kursk flatly refused) assistance. So for you information, I'd rather go as a non-combatant. That's partly why air force. I least I can work on transport and tanker planes as a part of a flight crew and get flying pay. I do say not support the war, I did not say in the time of my country's greatest need I would not serve, I say this too you if you're so pro= let's sign on, 17 you go down to the recuriters and sign up for dekayed entry. meaning you're going to boot camp once you finish high school or the day you turn 17 sign the paperwork (and your parents too) and join the armed forces. Would you do that?

I'd suggest you read my signature. As an IB student you must think outside the box and sometimes play devil's advocate.

[Harrison]

First, if you run to Canada, you will be sent back to the US. We have extradition treaties with you guys, and unless the person in question is facing the death penalty, we'll send you back to the US. So, stop running here.....Maybe swim to Cuba? Or, you could come to Canada, and then fly to Cuba, because us Canadian can go to Cuba....BTW its really nice down there

As for Iraq and Canada...Our government has said many times that if the UN supports action against Iraq, Canada will be in there fighting.

If the UN doesn't support the war, but the US acts unilaterally (which I strongly feel it should, nay, MUST not do) and still attacks Iraq, whether or not Canada will be backing the US, no one really knows. Personally, if the UN says no, I hope Canada respects that decision...and maybe the US might as well? Nah.

IMO, the US will attack Iraq. It is not a matter of IF, but WHEN. I figure it will probably happen towards the end of February, but hey, thats just me. Britain will probably back the US no matter what the UN says.

As for the UN, it exists to PREVENT COUNTRIES FROM ACTING UNILATERALLY AND CAUSING WARS. The US is a mamber of the UN, infact it is a vito member, and because of this, I feel it is the US's duty to follow what the UN says. If the US basically tells the UN to screw off (which is basically what it will be doing if it acts against UN reccomendations), then the UN must respond in tern to the US...Maybe take away some powers of the US within the UN? Who knows. There has to be a real incentive for the US to follow UN ruling.

The US is not above the UN...well, at least it shouldn't be...

Edit: Just FYI: I am a conservative if you were wondering.

[MRL180YTL2002]

I believe the U.S. could also kick the U.N. out of their headquarters in New York City as it is on American Soil. Besides, I don't think we actually send peacekeepers or pay our dues. But often we finance UN operations/missions...because we have the $$$$$$$ to do it.