Go to Post Picking up tetra's is going to be as easy as picking up a person of the opposite sex. While a select few will master it; others will be bumbling maroons.. - Elgin Clock [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Technical Discussion
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 16:52
craigboez's Avatar
craigboez craigboez is offline
Mechanical Engineer
AKA: Craig Boezwinkle
FRC #2811 (StormBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 217
craigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nice
Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

In order to machine our own gearbox side plates or chassis rails, we're going to need to ream some 1.125" and .875" bearing holes. We can do this in house, vs having to go out of house to CNC machine.

What is the sequence of events that takes place en route to reaming the hole? In particular, how many intermediate drill sizes are we going to need? Currently we don't own any drills larger than 1/2", so in order to ream holes we're looking at investing in both a reamer and the intermediate drills that will be necessary. What size would you drill the final hole before reaming? Would you recommend a 1.125" and .875" reamer, or something slightly undersized? The bearings will either be pressing into a sideplate (3/16 or 1/4) or a nano-tube style chassis rail/gearbox of 1/8" wall, 6061 or 6063 aluminum.

Thanks.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 17:01
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,510
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

I'd recommend a drill that's 1/64th under, and when you run the reamer, go slow RPM. To get a press fit, you'll need a reamer that's about a half-thou under size. Or, don't rely on press fits.

One trouble you'll have is finding reamers in those sizes with a 1/2" shank.

You might also consider looking into TCT hole cutters in those sizes.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 17:07
DampRobot's Avatar
DampRobot DampRobot is offline
Physics Major
AKA: Roger Romani
FRC #0100 (The Wildhats) and FRC#971 (Spartan Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Stanford University
Posts: 1,277
DampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigboez View Post
The bearings will either be pressing into a sideplate (3/16 or 1/4) or a nano-tube style chassis rail/gearbox of 1/8" wall, 6061 or 6063 aluminum.
I've heard that it can be quite a pain to machine 6063, so watch out for that. I know that some tubing sizes are really hard to get in 6061, but, well, watch out.

If you can't dependably do press fits, then design around it. Make sure that all bearings are retained from both sides by either their flanges or snap rings/shaft collars. All the press fit is doing in this case is making sure the bearings don't fall out.
__________________
The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be lighted.

-Plutarch
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 17:11
Joey Milia's Avatar
Joey Milia Joey Milia is offline
Registered User
FRC #0192 (GRT)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Palo Alto, CA /Riverside, CA
Posts: 124
Joey Milia is a splendid one to beholdJoey Milia is a splendid one to beholdJoey Milia is a splendid one to beholdJoey Milia is a splendid one to beholdJoey Milia is a splendid one to beholdJoey Milia is a splendid one to behold
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

What I did when cutting 1.125 bearing holes in 1/8 wall box beam. Started with quarter, then straight up to 1 inch, the largest drill we have. The pilot should be just big enough for the center part of the 1" drill which is not center cutting. Then I bored the hole to just under, and reamed it by hand to the final size.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 17:13
craigboez's Avatar
craigboez craigboez is offline
Mechanical Engineer
AKA: Craig Boezwinkle
FRC #2811 (StormBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 217
craigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nice
To this point we haven't needed to rely on a press fit for bearing retention. We can design in flanges on the bearings, spacers, e-clips, etc to keep the bearings in place.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 17:16
craigboez's Avatar
craigboez craigboez is offline
Mechanical Engineer
AKA: Craig Boezwinkle
FRC #2811 (StormBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 217
craigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddrag View Post
You might also consider looking into TCT hole cutters in those sizes.
I don't have any experience with these. Do they hold tolerances well enough for this application?
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 17:19
JCharlton's Avatar
JCharlton JCharlton is offline
Registered User
AKA: JC
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 123
JCharlton is a splendid one to beholdJCharlton is a splendid one to beholdJCharlton is a splendid one to beholdJCharlton is a splendid one to beholdJCharlton is a splendid one to beholdJCharlton is a splendid one to beholdJCharlton is a splendid one to behold
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

I'm looking to doing the same, machining 1-1/8 inch holes to a tight tolerance. I've been looking in to either a "sheet metal cutter" which can do 1/4" (e.g. http://www.trick-tools.com/Sheet_Metal_Cutters_81) or an annular cutter with a weldon shank adapter for our R8 mill.

I'd like to know if anyone with machining experience could comment on the above?
__________________
"There is no problem so bad that you can’t make it worse." - via Chris Hadfield
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 17:36
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 6,807
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cory
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Milia View Post
What I did when cutting 1.125 bearing holes in 1/8 wall box beam. Started with quarter, then straight up to 1 inch, the largest drill we have. The pilot should be just big enough for the center part of the 1" drill which is not center cutting. Then I bored the hole to just under, and reamed it by hand to the final size.
Out of curiosity, why did you ream the hole if you were already boring it? Boring should have given you superior dimensional accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCharlton View Post
I'm looking to doing the same, machining 1-1/8 inch holes to a tight tolerance. I've been looking in to either a "sheet metal cutter" which can do 1/4" (e.g. http://www.trick-tools.com/Sheet_Metal_Cutters_81) or an annular cutter with a weldon shank adapter for our R8 mill.

I'd like to know if anyone with machining experience could comment on the above?
Neither of those is going to give you a press fit. Possibly not even a very close hole to what you want.

The only good ways to get a dimensionally accurate hole to tight tolerances with manual equipment are reaming and boring. Boring is better as it will give you both a straight and dimensionally/positionally accurate hole while reaming will follow the existing hole. If it's not straight, or on location, your reamed hole won't be either.
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 17:58
craigboez's Avatar
craigboez craigboez is offline
Mechanical Engineer
AKA: Craig Boezwinkle
FRC #2811 (StormBots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 217
craigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nicecraigboez is just really nice
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The only good ways to get a dimensionally accurate hole to tight tolerances with manual equipment are reaming and boring. Boring is better as it will give you both a straight and dimensionally/positionally accurate hole while reaming will follow the existing hole. If it's not straight, or on location, your reamed hole won't be either.
We don't own any boring equipment. Any specific recommendations on what we would need?
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 18:21
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 6,807
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cory
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigboez View Post
We don't own any boring equipment. Any specific recommendations on what we would need?
You're going to need a mill and a boring head (top left). You could run a boring head in a drill press, but you'd have no way of accurately locating the hole in the part. I suppose a drill press with x-y table would work. I would much rather use a reamer or some other means-boring is a much more involved process that is going to take awhile to setup and run.

It's possible you could use an annular cutter or a hole saw if you were willing to live with a loose bearing fit. The annular cutter is probably going to do a better job. You could also buy an end mill in the size you want, which would do a pretty good job. That would run you about 60 bucks for a 1.125".
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 18:28
DampRobot's Avatar
DampRobot DampRobot is offline
Physics Major
AKA: Roger Romani
FRC #0100 (The Wildhats) and FRC#971 (Spartan Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Stanford University
Posts: 1,277
DampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond reputeDampRobot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
You're going to need a mill and a boring head (top left). You could run a boring head in a drill press, but you'd have no way of accurately locating the hole in the part. I suppose a drill press with x-y table would work. I would much rather use a reamer or some other means-boring is a much more involved process that is going to take awhile to setup and run.

It's possible you could use an annular cutter or a hole saw if you were willing to live with a loose bearing fit. The annular cutter is probably going to do a better job. You could also buy an end mill in the size you want, which would do a pretty good job. That would run you about 60 bucks for a 1.125".
I've always known we had boring tools for the mill, but have only ever used a boring bar in the lathe. Is the procedure to set the boring bar to the appropriate radius above the part, and then cut, or to somehow adjust it while in the part? I ask because on the lathe, I often adjust the radius of the cut while inside the part (so long as the part isn't too thick).
__________________
The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be lighted.

-Plutarch
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 18:40
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 6,807
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cory
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by DampRobot View Post
I've always known we had boring tools for the mill, but have only ever used a boring bar in the lathe. Is the procedure to set the boring bar to the appropriate radius above the part, and then cut, or to somehow adjust it while in the part? I ask because on the lathe, I often adjust the radius of the cut while inside the part (so long as the part isn't too thick).
I don't know what a machinist would tell you, or an instructor if you took a class, but the way I've always done it is to visually adjust the boring head above the part so that you'll take a small cut. Make that cut and then measure the diameter of the hole. Once you know the diameter of the hole you know how much you need to adjust the boring head. Odds are that unless you need to remove a very small amount, you can't go immediately to this number, but you at least know your starting point. In a production environment I'm guessing you would have some kind of offline fixture that would allow you to adjust the boring head to the right dimension with no trial and error.

If I'm understanding your question correctly you're asking if you can change the cutting diameter of the boring head without retracting it from the hole?

To adjust the cut diameter you have to turn a screw that is mounted radially on the body. The machine has to be stopped to do this, but if you're inside the hole and you try to increase the cut diameter you will push the boring head against the wall of the hole (see below).



You could do it in the hole if you moved one axis of the machine away from the hole, but you will still have to retract the tool from the hole and come back to the zero position to re-start your cut . This is common on CNC mills, so that they can retract the boring bar from the bore without scraping the wall.
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 16-12-2012, 18:50
Joey Milia's Avatar
Joey Milia Joey Milia is offline
Registered User
FRC #0192 (GRT)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Palo Alto, CA /Riverside, CA
Posts: 124
Joey Milia is a splendid one to beholdJoey Milia is a splendid one to beholdJoey Milia is a splendid one to beholdJoey Milia is a splendid one to beholdJoey Milia is a splendid one to beholdJoey Milia is a splendid one to behold
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Out of curiosity, why did you ream the hole if you were already boring it? Boring should have given you superior dimensional accuracy.
I reamed the hole because the boring head we have isn't very good, it's metric and has a lot of backlash in the adjustment screw so I wasn't comfortable trying to get the exact size without going over.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-12-2012, 01:45
roystur44's Avatar
roystur44 roystur44 is offline
Mentor/Sponsor
AKA: Roy Dumlao
FRC #4543 (Apollo Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: San Jose,California
Posts: 362
roystur44 has a reputation beyond reputeroystur44 has a reputation beyond reputeroystur44 has a reputation beyond reputeroystur44 has a reputation beyond reputeroystur44 has a reputation beyond reputeroystur44 has a reputation beyond reputeroystur44 has a reputation beyond reputeroystur44 has a reputation beyond reputeroystur44 has a reputation beyond reputeroystur44 has a reputation beyond reputeroystur44 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via Yahoo to roystur44
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

Using a drill press to get a located hole I suppose one could use a height gage to scribe a x y on to the piece. Then use a center punch and a center drill to get a good start on the hole. Then I would take a .257 drill bit to drill a pilot hole. Once you got the pilot hole one would use a ground c'bore to the press fit size for the bearing with a .250 pilot to guide the cbore.

See this link to see what I'm talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterbore
__________________
Roy Dumlao

Mentor/Sponsor
2006-2012 971
2013-2017 4543

Last edited by roystur44 : 17-12-2012 at 01:55.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-12-2012, 01:53
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,510
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Step by Step Hole Reaming Instructions

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigboez View Post
I don't have any experience with these. Do they hold tolerances well enough for this application?
Lowes sells Ideal brand hole cutters in 7/8 and 1 1/8 sizes. We have the 7/8 one we use on occasion for prototypes. It works well. I don't recall the exact hole size it comes out with, but in a drill press I recall it being .005 bigger or less. It would be better in a mill. It makes a nice clean round hole that works fine with flanged bearings.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:46.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi