2013 ACTUAL game hint!!!

[skimoose]

Originally Posted by billbo911

"A DINNER MISSED, HOLDING WEIGHT"
Quite often dinner is the largest meal of the day. Missing it may mean loosing out on the biggest caloric intake of the day. In the past couple years, the End Game has been a HUGE determining factor in the outcome of a match.
I'm guessing that the End Game this year may not be any different.

Wait you're missing the correct placement of the comma.

"A DINNER, MISSED
HOLDING WEIGHT"

Could "a dinner" be referring to the act of dining, like a Dinner Date? So could this line be referring to "A DATE, MISSED HOLDING WEIGHT"?

What date could be missed?

With the expansion of the competition season, the former Robot Ship Day, now Stop Build Day, is only nine days before Week One competition starts. Could we be seeing an end to Stop Build Day? It's on the FRC schedule still, but that could be a red herring.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by skimoose

Could we be seeing an end to Stop Build Day? It's on the FRC schedule still, but that could be a red herring.

I'd rather see an end to the withholding allowance!

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

I'd rather see an end to the withholding allowance!

Why? I'm personally a huge fan of the withholding allowance. It allowed our team to do a ton of iteration.

[Dad1279]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

I'd rather see an end to the withholding allowance!

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Why? I'm personally a huge fan of the withholding allowance. It allowed our team to do a ton of iteration.

I agree. Large witholding really means no stop build date. Teams can either copy more successful robots, or keep developing a practice bot, and carry in whole mechanisms.

Before witholding (and bumpers) robot designs were more varied.

[jspatz1]

Most mentors I know would like to see an end to the withholding allowance. Six weeks is enough time to ask them to donate, without turning it into a 14 week build season. The competition has become somewhat of a copying excercise now rather than an original design competition as it used to be. The withholding was originally started when the new crio-based control system was introduced, to allow teams more time work with it. I've never known what the reasoning is behind continuing it.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by jspatz1

The withholding was originally started when the new crio-based control system was introduced, to allow teams more time work with it. I've never known what the reasoning is behind continuing it.

Huh?

<R41 from 2008, R31 in 2007, and R29 in 2006>
Teams may bring a maximum of 25 pounds of custom FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE PARTS, REPLACEMENT PARTS, and/or UPGRADE PARTS) to each competition event to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT at the competition site. All other FABRICATED ITEMS to be used on the ROBOT during the competition shall arrive at the competition venue packed in the shipping crate with the ROBOT.

The weight limit has varied somewhat over the years (40lb in '09, 65 in '10, 30lb in '11-12), but it's quite old.

[jspatz1]

Originally Posted by Siri

Huh?

<R41 from 2008, R31 in 2007, and R29 in 2006>
Teams may bring a maximum of 25 pounds of custom FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE PARTS, REPLACEMENT PARTS, and/or UPGRADE PARTS) to each competition event to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT at the competition site. All other FABRICATED ITEMS to be used on the ROBOT during the competition shall arrive at the competition venue packed in the shipping crate with the ROBOT.

The weight limit has varied somewhat over the years (40lb in '09, 65 in '10, 30lb in '11-12), but it's quite old.

I guess I was remembering that they dramatically increased the allowance in 2009. At the time the reason given was to allow more time with the new control system, but they have continued the larger allowances. An even bigger change is that it used to be prohibited to work on actual robot components, upgrades, or software after build season. We were allowed two 5-hour "fix-it" work sessions after ship date, and between each regional, where we could build or repair spares or minor modifications, or work on software, but there was no on-going redesign and fabrication allowed after build season. Your robot was what it was at the end of build season, and that's what you competed with.

[|DELTA|]

I think that this convo. might be in the wrong thread...
Please correct me if I am wrong..

[Siri]

Originally Posted by jspatz1

I guess I was remembering that they dramatically increased the allowance in 2009. At the time the reason given was to allow more time with the new control system, but they have continued the larger allowances. An even bigger change is that it used to be prohibited to work on actual robot components, upgrades, or software after build season. We were allowed two 5-hour "fix-it" work sessions after ship date, and between each regional, where we could build or repair spares or minor modifications, or work on software, but there was no on-going redesign and fabrication allowed after build season. Your robot was what it was at the end of build season, and that's what you competed with.

Ok, though I can't say I noticed much of a difference. I know we were far from the only team seriously iterating during those 10hrs every week (that had a regional) to "manufacture SPARE, REPLACEMENT and UPGRADE PARTS and develop software". Given the heavier NI system, the allowance hasn't changed much aside from the '09 switch and '10 snow.


Regardless, has the hint ever alluded to a construction rule? Most of the ones I remember are field-related--and pretty direct at that. 2012 said ball shooting, 2011 said tower climbing and logo pieces, 2010 said soccer ball and divided field, 2009 said ice game, 2008 said hurdling and race track... Some were more difficult than others (kudos to the guy who did the 2010 soccer ball calculations), but very specific information was there for those geniuses out there who could get it.

I suspect we're looking for something more direct (arena, game or robot) as far as the poem goes...though other than lifting allies and coopertating, I have no rational guess as to what. Hey, I never said I was one of those geniuses.


As far as the AM chassis size, how long has the 20" long Nano been for sale? While I could see the robot size limits going down, is it possible that Andy simply wants to provide Nano instead of the C-Base? I don't know about performance or assembly (trickier?) trade-offs, but it is cheaper ($479 vs $549). Note that nothing on the site currently sells for exactly the PDV value ($450), and the Nano is actually among the closest.

Originally Posted by F22Rapture

It's my understanding that 4" plaction wheels have been available on and from Andymark for years, the only new development this year is that they're offering a new tread for them similar to the 6" HiGrips

He's talking about these.

EDIT:
@dotbran: I'm still waiting for traffic cones and nerf footballs. ...Just not simultaneously.

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by Siri

I'm still waiting for traffic cones and nerf footballs. ...Just not simultaneously.

Traffic cones are very high on my list of game pieces that would be great for FRC. Frisbees or other disks would be interesting.

Foam cubes like VEX elevation would also be fun.

I'm dreading the day they finally give us small balls. Racquetballs would be so hard with FRC robots.

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

Traffic cones are very high on my list of game pieces that would be great for FRC.

Me too.

They are in a way just like rounded Tetra's... they can be stacked in the same way. The downside is that they can only be stacked one way, but hey, that's another challange!

[ThirteenOfTwo]

So here's the big question:

Did Kerry Wentworth attend the FRC Holiday Celebration?

That'd make the hint make a lot more sense.

A ROSE KISSED -- Seal
SINGER GREAT -- Seal Great / Great Seal
A DINNER MISSED -- Kerry?
HOLDING WEIGHT -- Carry

Carrying the great seal, or carrying a pyramid. This would explain all of the miscellaneous threes, as well--harking back to Triple Play.

[skimoose]

Originally Posted by Dad1279

I agree. Large witholding really means no stop build date. Teams can either copy more successful robots, or keep developing a practice bot, and carry in whole mechanisms.

Before witholding (and bumpers) robot designs were more varied.

I would disagree. The reason there are fewer varied designs in FRC now has nothing, or very very little, to do with the withholding allowance rule. The reason for fewer varied designed is the volume of game rules strangling creativity. Thinking outside the box used to be celebrated, now it is often viewed as lawyering the rules.

The GDC has used the rules to force the game to be played as they envisioned it being played. Before the rules strangled creativity, some games were pretty broken by how teams played them. Classic to this was Stack Attack. The GDC viewed this as a tote stacking game, it quickly degenerated into just knock over every stack and get on top of the ramp. Some teams removed their tote stacking mechanisms during the season emphasizing that teams had made tote stacking irrelevant.

Also, before the withholding allowance I know that several teams in several different years designed major revisions between competitions and were able to do a ground up rebuild of their robot on Thursday of a following competition or at Championships. So the withholding allowance rules didn't allow for iterations or copying, they somewhat formalized the process.

A truly competitive team will continue to improve their robot throughout the season.

[SenorZ]

"First" hint: Rick Astley pic/Rick Roll hint
- Rick rolling started in 2007
- FRC game in 2007: Rack 'n' Roll
- anagram of "Rick Astley" is "Rack Ye Lit"

"Second" hint: reference to Mesoamerica calendar
- 'coincidence' --> to coincide --> overlap geometrically
- calendar is round, has rings

Official hint: pi-cipher poem
First couplet --> Seal's Kiss From a Rose
- released 1994, mentions tower in first line
- FRC game in 1994: Tower Power
Second couplet --> clue to game action
- "a dinner, missed" --> missed meal, to "fast"
- "holding weight" --> to carry
- 'fast carry' could mean to haul something

From this analysis, and the repetition of the number 3 in postings, I'm guessing there will be three scoring stations, most likely a tower/rack that teams can load/dump game elements into. But opposing alliances will be able to steal points somehow, so holding elements til the end might be encouraged. The scoring towers/racks might have light indicators showing which has the higher number of game elements by weight.
Also I might have just wasted too much time thinking about all this and will be very disappointed on Kickoff day!

[dodar]

Originally Posted by SenorZ

"First" hint: Rick Astley pic/Rick Roll hint
- Rick rolling started in 2007
- FRC game in 2007: Rack 'n' Roll
- anagram of "Rick Astley" is "Rack Ye Lit"

"Second" hint: reference to Mesoamerica calendar
- 'coincidence' --> to coincide --> overlap geometrically
- calendar is round, has rings

Official hint: pi-cipher poem
First couplet --> Seal's Kiss From a Rose
- released 1994, mentions tower in first line
- FRC game in 1994: Tower Power
Second couplet --> clue to game action
- "a dinner, missed" --> missed meal, to "fast"
- "holding weight" --> to carry
- 'fast carry' could mean to haul something

From this analysis, and the repetition of the number 3 in postings, I'm guessing there will be three scoring stations, most likely a tower/rack that teams can load/dump game elements into. But opposing alliances will be able to steal points somehow, so holding elements til the end might be encouraged. The scoring towers/racks might have light indicators showing which has the higher number of game elements by weight.
Also I might have just wasted too much time thinking about all this and will be very disappointed on Kickoff day!

Nice analysis. Maybe a mixture game of 2005 and 2007.