Climbing Rules

[Donut]

Originally Posted by JHammond

A close rereading of the rules makes me believe this is OK:

A ROBOT Has Climbed the Pyramid if it contacts the pyramid in:
A: Sequential Order (levels 0,1,2,3)) during ascent
B: no more that 2 levels simultaneously

So even to a bot is hooking around the horizontal bar, it's only contacting the zone the bar is in, even if it it extends into the upper plane.

This is the key here. The way the rules are written it explicitly mentions "contacts", which means that the robot must physically touch the pyramid within that level to be considered in it (I don't see how projecting into the plane can be considered contacting).

This does make climbing the corners of the pyramid a more hazardous proposal, since it's fairly easy to contact a tiny portion of the pyramid just barely in level 2 while still contacting level 0 at the corners.

[mikemascot]

how many robots can the pyramid hold at its max tolerance

[Dominator1619]

Has anybody seen anything in the rules about climbing the corner bars as opposed to the horizontal bars?

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Dominator1619

Has anybody seen anything in the rules about climbing the corner bars as opposed to the horizontal bars?

No prohibition, but the kickoff did direct you to consider the way the horizontal bars and the corners intersect.

[Sean M]

I would lend emphasis to the "contact" part of 3.2.4.2 rather than being in the zones themselves. As JHammond mentioned, any robot taller than 30" would otherwise immediately violate the rule (touching level 0, in zone 1 and zone 2). My interpretation is that the only thing being restricted is CONTACT with the pyramid, not presence in a zone.

Another thing to consider the legality of would be the scenario of lifting an alliance robot. Per the rules, your robot could have climbed in the traditional sense (whatever that may be), be in Level 3, and then lift an alliance mate (say by hooking on some point on their robot) by [G33] through to Level 2. This alliance robot would have contacted the pyramid in sequential order (only Level 0) and satisfies restraint B.

[Team1339]

Originally Posted by Spartechs2441

Regarding the pyramid



Does this mean that you cannot hook onto the 2nd bar, then climb up and touch the 1st bar on the way? You have to hook up to the 1st, then 2nd, and finally 3rd bar while only touching the next level?

This could mean that the robot can't be in contact with more than 2 zones of the pyramid at the end of the match, couldnt it?

[MisterG]

We have been discussing this clause in section 3.2.4.2:

Points are awarded for the highest Level achieved for every ALLIANCE ROBOT that CLIMBS its PYRAMID. The Level to which a ROBOT has CLIMBED is determined by the lowest point of the ROBOT (in relation to the FIELD).

We can't agree on whether this means that a robot score points by climbing early and descending.

That is are points only awarded for robots that are in position when the game time expires.

Our early interpretation is that the points will be awarded no matter when the climb happens but this is certainly a point for the official Q&A.

Al G.

[rich2202]

My interpretation is:

The Pyramid is described in section 2.2.5, and is composed of the steel tubing (et al), and the 4 steel bases (24 inch square). Except for the steel plates, the Pyramid does not include the floor under the pyramid.

Separately, there are zones designated as levels (0 through 3). Parts of the Pyramid are in each Zone. But, the Zones are not the Pyramid.

Section 3.1.5.2. CLIMB Points. The Robot has climbed the Pyramid if it contacts the pyramid in no more than two levels simultaneously.

There is no rule that restricts how many zones your bot can simultaneously occupy. Only how many points of contact you can have with the Pyramid.

Only the steel plates of the Pyramid are in level 0.

The first bar is in level 1.

The second bar is in level 2.

So, it is possible to hook onto the 2nd bar, and not violate the rule, if you are not touching a steel plate. This makes it easy to clear the floor (level 0) using the 2nd bar.

Note: make sure you comply with the sequential order rule. Contact the pyramid in level 1 before you contact the 2nd bar. Nothing I see requires you to do anything with the 1st bar. Note 2: The sequential rule does reference level 0, so maybe make sure to touch the steel plate (only part of the pyramid in level 0) before you touch anything else.

You can reach above the 2nd bar, into level 3, as long as you do not touch any part of the Pyramid in Level 3 (the 2nd bar is fully in level 2).

In order to touch the 3rd bar, or any vertical piece above the 2nd bar, you cannot be touching any part of the Pyramid at or below the 1st bar, or you would violate the rule (this presumes you are touching the 2nd bar).

In summary, being "in a zone" does not cause problems. Touching the pyramid in more than 2 zones at a time, does cause problems.

Getting off level 0 is not that difficult (first 10 points). The difficult part is clearing the first bar while only holding onto the 2nd bar (second 10 points) and not touching any part of the pyramid at or below the 1st bar (hanging below, but not touching is ok). Once you have reached that point, then you can touch the 3rd bar, and then clear level 2 (third 10 points).

Note: This is a strict reading of the rules. Future clarifications may affect the interpretation. Such as, a clarification that the floor under the Pyramid is considered part of the pyramid for "contact" purposes, and the floor is considered in level 0. That would mean you have to clear the floor before you can touch the 2nd bar.

[indubitably]

Originally Posted by Team1339

This could mean that the robot can't be in contact with more than 2 zones of the pyramid at the end of the match, couldnt it?

I think this is what really needs the clarification. I believe you will still have to obey that rule while climbing after the clarification, but right now, I don't think it's 100% clear. That would make it way easier to climb.

[gburlison]

Originally Posted by MisterG

We have been discussing this clause in section 3.2.4.2:



We can't agree on whether this means that a robot score points by climbing early and descending.

That is are points only awarded for robots that are in position when the game time expires.

Our early interpretation is that the points will be awarded no matter when the climb happens but this is certainly a point for the official Q&A.

Al G.

What is your interpretation of G4 ?
"3.2.1.4 G04
ROBOTS may only be removed from a PYRAMID under the following conditions:
A. by the TEAM,
B. unpowered,
C. and under the supervision of a FIRST Technical Advisor (FTA), FTA Assistant, Referee, or Field Supervisor.

Additionally, if any part of the ROBOT is in Level 3, TEAMS are required to attach a FIRST supplied belay line, detailed
in Section 2.2.6, to their ROBOT to spot a ROBOT while the TEAM removes it from the PYRAMID."

[jason701802]

Originally Posted by rich2202

My interpretation is:

...

Note: make sure you comply with the sequential order rule. Contact the pyramid in level 1 before you contact the 2nd bar. Nothing I see requires you to do anything with the 1st bar. Note 2: The sequential rule does reference level 0, so maybe make sure to touch the steel plate (only part of the pyramid in level 0) before you touch anything else.

A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and

It certainly references level 0

[ddesportes]

We have the same conundrum with climbing through level 2. If the robot grips the bar at the top of level 2, presumably part of the gripper is over top of the bar and, therefore, in Level 3. If at the same time the robot still has some attachment to the bar at the top of Level 1, the robot would be in three levels at once. I sincerely hope this is not the intent of the rules.

[Redo91]

[G22] Robots must contact the pyramid in
A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and
B. no more than two (2) Levels simultaneously.

Emphasis mine.

This rule reads a little funny at first, but when you take it for exactly what it says, I think it becomes clear. There is nothing about how many zones the robot can occupy, but how many different zones the robot may contact. This is why the planes for the zones are above the horizontal members.

Let's say you are going to score on the second level (20 points). Your first step, following G22, would be to move from level 0 (the ground) to level 1(fully supported by the section of the pyramid in zone 1). You are now free to move on from the section of the pyramid in zone 1 to the section in zone 2.

I hope this is a helpful explanation.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Redo91

Emphasis mine.

This rule reads a little funny at first, but when you take it for exactly what it says, I think it becomes clear. There is nothing about how many zones the robot can occupy, but how many different zones the robot may contact. This is why the planes for the zones are above the horizontal members.

Let's say you are going to score on the second level (20 points). Your first step, following G22, would be to move from level 0 (the ground) to level 1(fully supported by the section of the pyramid in zone 1). You are now free to move on from the section of the pyramid in zone 1 to the section in zone 2.

I hope this is a helpful explanation.

So...does this make scaling corners as difficult as I think it does?

[Redo91]

Originally Posted by Siri

So...does this make scaling corners as difficult as I think it does?

Only as difficult as you design it to be.