Circular/cornerless robot - Bumper free or fully bumpered?

[Leav]

When reading <R22>, I immediately thought "what if the robot doesn't have corners?" (e.g. a circular robot)

I could interpret it both ways:

• Bumpers must cover corners. no corners, no bumpers.
• An pentagon would has five corners, a hexagon six corners, an octagon eight, a nonagon nine, a decagon ten.... a circle is ALL CORNERS, and thus must have full bumper coverage.

Unless I missed something, it's definitely one for the Q&A...

-Leav

[Jon Stratis]

I would say... A circle is an infinite collection of corners, and as such not allowed, as you can't have 8" of bumper on either side of each and every corner!

[Leav]

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

I would say... A circle is an infinite collection of corners, and as such not allowed, as you can't have 8" of bumper on either side of each and every corner!

Interesting! I'd challenge that by saying that if the robot was fully encircled with bumpers it would indeed have 8" of bumpers on either side...

[brndn]

Regardless of the technical definitions of circles and corners... I think FIRST would like bumpers on every robot

[Richard Wallace]

I think Brandon's right.^

So, assuming it must have bumpers, would a circular frame with <112 inch perimeter (i.e., <35.6" diameter) offer any advantage for Ultimate Ascent?

[Leav]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

I think Brandon's right.^

So, assuming it must have bumpers, would a circular frame with <112 inch perimeter (i.e., <35.6" diameter) offer any advantage for Ultimate Ascent?

Harder to pin down or stop?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

I think that Jon is on the right track. With an infinite number of exterior corners, and a bumper that completely surrounds the circular robot, it would be impossible for an inspector to state the the rule is not satisfied. An inspector would not be able to determine where one starts and the other ends. Backing into the description, if the bumper surrounds the robot it must be completely protecting the frame perimeter regardless of corners.

[topgun]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

I think that Jon is on the right track. With an infinite number of exterior corners, and a bumper that completely surrounds the circular robot, it would be impossible for an inspector to state the the rule is not satisfied. An inspector would not be able to determine where one starts and the other ends. Backing into the description, if the bumper surrounds the robot it must be completely protecting the frame perimeter regardless of corners.

I am a little confused. So you are saying a completely round robot surrounded completely with a bumper would satisfy the rules? What about the numbering? I suppose just put at 90 degrees and call it good.

The other question is how to make a completely round bumper out of 3/4" wood material.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by topgun

The other question is how to make a completely round bumper out of 3/4" wood material.

Steam box.

Going back to a non-circular robot, if one of your edges between corners is less than 8", you're out of luck. You can't protect 8" on either side of a corner of the adjacent edge is < 8".

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Going back to a non-circular robot, if one of your edges between corners is less than 8", you're out of luck. You can't protect 8" on either side of a corner of the adjacent edge is < 8".

Building on that -- since the perimeter cannot exceed 112", a polygonal frame perimeter cannot have more that 112/8 = 14 sides. So a frame perimeter with, say, one million sides would be illegal -- and indistinguishable from a circle. Hmm, maybe the circular frame perimeter is illegal after all?

[JJackson]

Originally Posted by topgun

The other question is how to make a completely round bumper out of 3/4" wood material.

You could laminate your own plywood into a circle. You would also have to make a jig to hold it as the glue dries

[FrankJ]

You could steam the plywood & make a circle.

But R2 describes the frame as a polygon. It is stretching the definition of a circle to call it a polygon.

R22 requires 8" of bumper between each outside corner of a polygon. Even if you buy into a circle being a polygon, there is not 8' between outside corners.

R29A Requires the bumpers be supported by the frame 1" from each end the bumper. How can you do this if the bumpers have no end?

Not being a inspector or on the rules committee, my opinion is not the one you have to use.

Anybody notice that R22 exempts the bumpers from bag & Tag?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Isn't anyone going to talk about the need to have a continuous backing board to prevent someone from determining a start and end to the bumper? Or getting the bumper to weigh less than 20 lbs? Boy you guys try to make my job harder every year.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Richard Wallace

I think Brandon's right.^

So, assuming it must have bumpers, would a circular frame with <112 inch perimeter (i.e., <35.6" diameter) offer any advantage for Ultimate Ascent?

You could roll it sideways instead of using a robot cart?

Originally Posted by topgun

I am a little confused. So you are saying a completely round robot surrounded completely with a bumper would satisfy the rules? What about the numbering? I suppose just put at 90 degrees and call it good.

The other question is how to make a completely round bumper out of 3/4" wood material.

I think a circular bumper would pass inspection. I would pass it, as an inspector. Al S (THE Lead Robot Inspector) says so too.

To make such a bumper, make your own plywood. 1/16" strips of wood, steamed, glued and clamped will make a plywood circle. Ever see a bent-wood chair?

Leav, if you build that please post a photo! That would look awesome!

[AdamHeard]

With access to a moderate sized wood router, teams could also cut hoops then stack and glue them vertically.