Go to Post "So [you're] like battlebots" Standard answer: No -- it's better! - Roger [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2013, 18:36
Radical Pi Radical Pi is offline
Putting the Jumper in the Bumper
AKA: Ian Thompson
FRC #0639 (Code Red Robotics)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 655
Radical Pi has a spectacular aura aboutRadical Pi has a spectacular aura aboutRadical Pi has a spectacular aura about
Discs under the pyramid

One of our team's members was talking about hiding discs under your pyramid, which would effectively stop the opposing alliance from getting at them. The only potential issue in the rules I can come up with is the blue box on G24:

Quote:
Originally Posted by G24
C. “trapping” (pressing one or more DISCS against a FIELD element in an attempt to shield them).
That seems like a bit of a stretch to me, since it wouldn't be held against the element. Anyone have a different opinion?
__________________

"To have no errors would be life without meaning. No strugle, no joy"
"A network is only as strong as it's weakest linksys"
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2013, 18:38
Jay O'Donnell's Avatar
Jay O'Donnell Jay O'Donnell is offline
Division by Pirates
FRC #0229 (Division by Zero)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Potsdam, NY/Londonderry, NH
Posts: 1,352
Jay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond reputeJay O'Donnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Discs under the pyramid

Not sure about the rule, but it wouldn't necessarily be a fullproof strategy, assuming theres a robot on the opposing alliance under 30 inches.
__________________
Student on Team 1058 (2012-2015)
Mentor on Team 229 (2016-Present)
Writer for Blue Alliance Blog
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2013, 18:39
Sean M's Avatar
Sean M Sean M is offline
Alum, Mentor, and Vulonteer
AKA: Sean M. Messenger
FRC #0830 (RatPack)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 40
Sean M is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Discs under the pyramid

Seems entirely legal, in my opinion -- though I don't know why you'd go that far and not just score them, even if just dumping in the bottom goal. That being said, a short opponent robot could still try to avoid the pyramid and your robots and just push through and clear them out again.
__________________
Sean M. Messenger

Mentor: FRC Team 830
Alum: FRC Team 2046
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2013, 18:41
MetalJacket's Avatar
MetalJacket MetalJacket is offline
Has read the 2014 manual
AKA: Jesse Gibson
FRC #2068 (The Metal Jackets)
Team Role: CAD
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 164
MetalJacket has a spectacular aura aboutMetalJacket has a spectacular aura aboutMetalJacket has a spectacular aura about
Re: Discs under the pyramid

As long as your robot is not physically in contact with the discs you should be fine so long as you are only pushing 4 or less disks at a time under the goal. There are 3 problems I can see with this is that 1. the oposing alliance could just chose not to introduce any game pieces until one of their robots is ready for them thus preventing you from hoarding them (since hoarding yours would be pointless), 2. Why not just take them and score them yourself if you have them, the only alliance-specific game pieces are the colored ones for the pyramid goals, and 3. If you're not careful and build up a pile of more than four touching one another, it may be ruled that you are controlling mor than four if you push more under there.
-just my opinion of the rules/strategy
__________________
Team Role = !artTeam
2011 - Logomotion
- Virginia Regional : Tournament Semi-Finalist, Gracious Professionalism Award
2012 - Rebound Rumble
- Chesapeake Regional : Tournament Finalist, Gracious Professionalism Award
2013 - Ultimate Ascent
- Virginia Regional : Gracious Professionalism Award
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2013, 18:43
Nuttyman54's Avatar
Nuttyman54 Nuttyman54 is offline
Mentor, Tactician
AKA: Evan "Numbers" Morrison
FRC #5803 (Apex Robotics) and FRC #0971 (Spartan Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Seattle, WA/Mountain View, CA
Posts: 2,144
Nuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Nuttyman54
Re: Discs under the pyramid

There are over 100 discs available to the teams. I don't think hoarding will be a particularly effective use of your time, especially since 45 of those discs are available to your opponents from their human player.
__________________
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2013, 19:23
Grim Tuesday's Avatar
Grim Tuesday Grim Tuesday is offline
Registered User
AKA: Simon Bohn
FRC #0639 (Code Red)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Baltimore MD (JHU)
Posts: 1,607
Grim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Discs under the pyramid

<G24>:

Quote:
ROBOTS may not actively control more than four (4) DISCS at any one time.

Violation: FOUL per extra DISC


Moving or positioning a DISC to gain advantage is considered “active control.”

Examples of “active control” include

A. “carrying” (holding DISCS in or on the ROBOT),

B. “herding” (intentionally pushing or impelling DISCS to a desired location or direction), and

C. “trapping” (pressing one or more DISCS against a FIELD element in an attempt to shield them).

Examples of DISC interaction that are not “active control” are

D. “bulldozing” (inadvertently coming in contact with DISCS that happen to be in the path of the ROBOT as it moves about the FIELD) and

E. “deflecting” (being hit by a propelled DISC that bounces or rolls off the ROBOT).
Emphasis mine.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2013, 19:24
Gregor's Avatar
Gregor Gregor is offline
#StickToTheStratisQuo
AKA: Gregor Browning
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,447
Gregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond reputeGregor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Discs under the pyramid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday View Post
<G24>:



Emphasis mine.
Then do 4 at a time
__________________
What are nationals? Sounds like a fun American party, can we Canadians come?
“For me, insanity is super sanity. The normal is psychotic. Normal means lack of imagination, lack of creativity.” -Jean Dubuffet
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -Albert Einstein
FLL 2011-2015 Glen Ames Robotics-Student, Mentor
FRC 2012-2013 Team 907-Scouting Lead, Strategy Lead, Human Player, Driver
FRC 2014-2015 Team 1310-Mechanical, Electrical, Drive Captain
FRC 2011-xxxx Volunteer
How I came to be a FIRSTer
<Since 2011
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2013, 19:25
Grim Tuesday's Avatar
Grim Tuesday Grim Tuesday is offline
Registered User
AKA: Simon Bohn
FRC #0639 (Code Red)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Baltimore MD (JHU)
Posts: 1,607
Grim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Discs under the pyramid

I would interpret it as that they are still under your active control once you leave direct contact with them if you have pushed them to a desirable (ie inaccessible by opponents) location.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-01-2013, 19:31
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,825
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Discs under the pyramid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday View Post
I would interpret it as that they are still under your active control once you leave direct contact with them if you have pushed them to a desirable location.
If you have left contact with them, I fail to see how you are still controlling them. You are no longer herding them; you are leaving them in a location where you want them. You then go to get 4 more, leaving them undefended (other than the pyramid or loading zone and traffic around them, if that is where you leave them).

I shoot (impel--falls under herding) 4 discs into my top goal. By your interpretation, I can no longer pick up any discs, having 4 discs herded to where I want them. Under my interpretation, I can grab 4 more and impel them into my top goal... and 4 more... and 4 more, impel 1, grab 1, impel 3, climb my pyramid, impel the last 1.
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk

  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-01-2013, 01:19
z_beeblebrox's Avatar
z_beeblebrox z_beeblebrox is offline
Custom User Title
AKA: Cal
FRC #4183 (Bit Buckets)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Cambridge MA
Posts: 811
z_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Discs under the pyramid

I don't think putting the discs under the pyramid 4 at a time would be legal, but I don't understand why anyone would want to put them there, especially since the discs can be "hoarded" in a goal where your opponent can't get them and you get points for them.
__________________
2012 Utah Regional Rookie All-Star
2013 Phoenix Regional Judge's Award for "design process and prototyping"
2014 Hub City Regional Quality Award, Arizona Regional Excellence in Engineering Award
2015 Arizona East Regional Creativity Award, Winner
2016 Arizona North Regional Finalist, Arizona West Excellence in Engineering Award, Finalist
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-01-2013, 05:50
Anupam Goli's Avatar
Anupam Goli Anupam Goli is offline
PCH Q&A co-founder/Scouting Mentor
AKA: noops
FRC #1648 (G3 Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 1,242
Anupam Goli has a reputation beyond reputeAnupam Goli has a reputation beyond reputeAnupam Goli has a reputation beyond reputeAnupam Goli has a reputation beyond reputeAnupam Goli has a reputation beyond reputeAnupam Goli has a reputation beyond reputeAnupam Goli has a reputation beyond reputeAnupam Goli has a reputation beyond reputeAnupam Goli has a reputation beyond reputeAnupam Goli has a reputation beyond reputeAnupam Goli has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Discs under the pyramid

I'm thinking that G24 applies mainly to using some sort of corral to just block frisbees (more than 4) and take them to a place. The act of herding is what is being penalized, not the location you put the frisbees in, the act of herding being defined as intentionally pushing or impelling DISCS to the desired location.

But honestly, the other alliance has 45 frisbees in their feeder stations, and something like 6 start on the field at the start of the match? Unless everyone is a bad shot (and that may be something at regionals we may see often), then it's not worth it, and even then, when the other alliance notices these shenanigans, they'll just feed the robot with the feeder.
__________________
Team 1002: 2008-2012
Team 1648: 2012-2016
Georgia Tech Class of 2016
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-01-2013, 17:44
bduddy bduddy is offline
Registered User
FRC #0840 (ART)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: San Bruno, CA
Posts: 869
bduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond reputebduddy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Discs under the pyramid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday View Post
I would interpret it as that they are still under your active control once you leave direct contact with them if you have pushed them to a desirable (ie inaccessible by opponents) location.
That makes no sense at all - it would imply that once you have pushed 4 disks anywhere that could be "desirable", you would not be allowed to control any more disks for the rest of the game. I think the key phrase is "active control" - they count towards the limit while and only while you are actively controlling them, which may include herding or trapping but does not include just leaving them there.
__________________

Does anyone else remember when TBA signatures actually worked?
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-01-2013, 19:41
bluecraney bluecraney is offline
Registered User
FRC #0885 (The Green Team)
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: vermont
Posts: 5
bluecraney is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Discs under the pyramid

with the 102 disks it would be a waist of time for you would need to gain acess to all 51 disks that were originally possessed by the opposing team in 2 min that would be you taking over 2 disks per sec and not letting them score even during the 15 sec auto period
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-01-2013, 21:01
rich2202 rich2202 is offline
Registered User
FRC #2202 (BEAST Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,275
rich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond reputerich2202 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Discs under the pyramid

While it may be easy to bulldoze 4 DISCs at a time under your pyramid, I think you are better off figure out a way to pick up the DISCs and dumping them into the low goal. Once they are in the goal, they are out of play, and you get a point too.

Plus, when you are buldozing, you can't bulldoze into a pile you have already created under the pyramid, because then you would be controlling more than 4 DISCs.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi