Climbing Rules

[gburlison]

Originally Posted by Emma578

You Can Climb During Teleop But To Keep The Points You Need To Stay There Until The Match Ends!

I have been searching for the section or rule that states you need to be on the pyramid at the end of the match to score the points. So far this is what I have found.

"3.1.5.2 CLIMB Points
Points are awarded for the highest Level achieved for every ALLIANCE ROBOT that CLIMBS its PYRAMID. The Level to which a ROBOT has CLIMBED is determined by the lowest point of the ROBOT (in relation to the FIELD). CLIMB
point values and Levels are defined in Figure 3-4.

A ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID in
A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and
B. no more than two (2) Levels simultaneously.

If a CLIMB is considered unacceptable (e.g. a ROBOT has touched non-adjacent Levels or more than two (2) Levels at a time), a Referee will indicate a rejected CLIMB by turning the offending ROBOT’S PLAYER STATION LED strings yellow. The ROBOT will be ineligible for CLIMB points unless and until it begins a new CLIMB from the floor, Level 0.

3.2.1.4 G04
ROBOTS may only be removed from a PYRAMID under the following conditions:
A. by the TEAM,
B. unpowered,
C. and under the supervision of a FIRST Technical Advisor (FTA), FTA Assistant, Referee, or Field Supervisor."


This seem to imply that once a robot has climbed the pyramid correctly, the alliance will be awarded points determined by how high it has climbed. The is no mention of staying on the pyramid until the end of the match.

Rule G4 might apply since the robot would be removed from the pyramid in a manner inconsistent with G4, but since that rule is under the safety section of the rules, it is possible it only applies after the match is over. A violation of G4 results in a Yellow card but does not mention loss of points

Thoughts ?

[MetalJacket]

Originally Posted by gburlison

This seem to imply that once a robot has climbed the pyramid correctly, the alliance will be awarded points determined by how high it has climbed. The is no mention of staying on the pyramid until the end of the match.

Rule G4 might apply since the robot would be removed from the pyramid in a manner inconsistent with G4, but since that rule is under the safety section of the rules, it is possible it only applies after the match is over. A violation of G4 results in a Yellow card but does not mention loss of points

Thoughts ?

I believe this would be legal since, as you said, there is nothing saying you must remain in position to recieve points. Coming back down should be legal because the rule about what qualifies as an acceptable climb states that if a climb is ruled unacceptable, the robot will have to come down and restart the climb. I expect this will most likely be part of a rules clarification though.

[Radical Pi]

Originally Posted by gburlison

Rule G4 might apply since the robot would be removed from the pyramid in a manner inconsistent with G4, but since that rule is under the safety section of the rules, it is possible it only applies after the match is over. A violation of G4 results in a Yellow card but does not mention loss of points

Even that I'm doubting, since the rules pretty clearly say you can go all the way back down if your climb is ruled invalid:

Originally Posted by 3.1.5.2

If a CLIMB is considered unacceptable (e.g. a ROBOT has touched non-adjacent Levels or more than two (2) Levels at a time), a Referee will indicate a rejected CLIMB by turning the offending ROBOT’S PLAYER STATION LED strings yellow. The ROBOT will be ineligible for CLIMB points unless and until it begins a new CLIMB from the floor, Level 0.

[jason701802]

Originally Posted by 3.1.5 (or 3.2.4 in the PDF)

Points are awarded to ALLIANCES per the details below. Final scores will be assessed five (5) seconds after the ARENA timer displays zero (0) or when all elements come to rest, whichever event happens first.

I think that makes it pretty clear that the official score is based on the position of the robot(s) (and Frisbees) 5 seconds after the end of the match

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by jason701802

I think that makes it pretty clear that the official score is based on the position of the robot(s) (and Frisbees) 5 seconds after the end of the match

I agree, and assume they'll clarify early on.

[ScottOliveira]

So I have a thought concerning the legality of grabbing the second bar while on the ground.

You'll note that the rules specify:

A ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID in
A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and
B. no more than two (2) Levels simultaneously.

However the Pyramid is defined as

PYRAMID: the Red or Blue steel structure on which ROBOTS CLIMB for points.

The carpet beneath the period is not a part of the steel structure, and therefore not a part of the defined pyramid. So, as long as you were to contact the Level 1 structure first, it could be legal to grab on to the Level 2 structure, while being in contact with the carpet, as you are not contacting the pyramid itself in Level 0.

That may not be intent of the rules, but the wording is very strange. The pyramid is defined as just the steel structure, and doesn't mention including the carpet beneath. And given that Figure 3-4 seems to show Level 0 as being below the actual structure of the pyramid, is it even possible to contact the pyramid in Level 0? Perhaps a rewording of 3.1.5.2 is necessary?

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by ScottOliveira

So I have a thought concerning the legality of grabbing the second bar while on the ground.

It's been noted. I'm sure it will be clarified quickly in the Q&A or team updates!

[Redo91]

I am unable to find the blog post where Frank discusses it, but this sounds like "lawyering". The intent, I believe, is for the robot to be supported only by the individual level before moving on to the next level.

Of course, a Q&A submission and team updates will say for sure what the ruling on this is.

[ScottOliveira]

Originally Posted by Redo91

I am unable to find the blog post where Frank discusses it, but this sounds like "lawyering". The intent, I believe, is for the robot to be supported only by the individual level before moving on to the next level.

Of course, a Q&A submission and team updates will say for sure what the ruling on this is.

No disagreement from me, I imagine the you are correct about the intent and this is definitely a lawyering of the rules. Simply trying to point out a possible oversight so that it can be addressed properly.

[cgmv123]

I think the manual makes it pretty clear that the floor is Level 0. Thus, you have to be completely supported by Bar 1 to touch Bar 2 and have it be part of a legal climb.

[jvriezen]

It would be great if the GDC puts out an update that includes diagrams of 'robots' climbing and showing legal and illegal climbing intermediate positions-- especially in relation to the floor and/or leg floor plates. Also examples that involve touching the legs of the pyramid. Sort of like they do for Ok/Not Ok bumper configurations.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

I think the manual makes it pretty clear that the floor is Level 0.

It isn't quite so clear about the floor being part of the pyramid, though. This is one spot where I expect an update to the rules.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

It isn't quite so clear about the floor being part of the pyramid, though. This is one spot where I expect an update to the rules.

But for the purpose of climbing, the floor counts as a level. It doesn't matter whether or not it's part of the pyramid for the purposes of climbing.

A ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID and/or the floor (Level 0) in

A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

But for the purpose of climbing, the floor counts as a level. It doesn't matter whether or not it's part of the pyramid for the purposes of climbing.

(to give Alan some credit, this was just clarified in the rules update today )