Rule Clarifications

[aknackrunism29]

I was a bit curious about a few foggy areas in the manual. I heard that a frisbee that is partially in the goal will be counted, but I have also heard that scoring will be through weight sensors, which may not detect a partially scored frisbee. Additionally, I was curious about the definition of the word "contact" in rule 3.1.5.2 (climb points). Lastly, can one alliance use the other alliance's colored frisbees?

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by aknackrunism29

I was a bit curious about a few foggy areas in the manual. I heard that a frisbee that is partially in the goal will be counted, but I have also heard that scoring will be through weight sensors, which may not detect a partially scored frisbee. Additionally, I was curious about the definition of the word "contact" in rule 3.1.5.2 (climb points). Lastly, can one alliance use the other alliance's colored frisbees?

Seems to me that contact means touch?

An alliance can use the other alliance's frisbees, though they hold no value to you than a regular frisbee.

3.1.51 DISC Points
...Additionally, for a DISC to be considered SCORED in an ALLIANCE’S PYRAMID GOAL, it must correspond to the PYRAMID color.

Additionally, if you are to utilized the other alliance's frisbees, you will have to pick up off the floor, as the frisbees start behind the alliance walls.

[cgmv123]

The weight sensors are only used to provide live-scoring. If there's a mistake with them during a match, the score will be fixed accordingly.

[Johnbot]

The rule clarification I would most like to see is on 3.1.5.2:
A ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID in

sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and
no more than two (2) Levels simultaneously.

How does level 0 work? The pyramid is defined as a steel structure, so does it not include the floor beneath it? If the floor is excluded from being part of the pyramid, can you contact the pyramid in sequential order? Can you grab the first and second bar while on the ground, as you are only contacting the pyramid in levels 1 and 2? Am I missing something crucial, or is this a Q and A question?

[V. Gray]

From what I've read is that the ground is level zero, and hence counts as a level, therefore counts as one of the two levels you are allowed to contact. If you are on the ground and grab both the first and second bars, you would be in violation of this rule, as you are in contact with levels 0, 1, and 2. Correct me if I am wrong however.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

The weight sensors are only used to provide live-scoring. If there's a mistake with them during a match, the score will be fixed accordingly.

Can you tell me where his is specified? I don't believe you.

[Johnbot]

Originally Posted by V. Gray

From what I've read is that the ground is level zero, and hence counts as a level, therefore counts as one of the two levels you are allowed to contact. If you are on the ground and grab both the first and second bars, you would be in violation of this rule, as you are in contact with levels 0, 1, and 2. Correct me if I am wrong however.

But the rule says, "ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID" The glossary defines a pyramid as the steel structure, it doesn't say it includes to floor. Level 0 is the floor, so no part of the pyramid appears to be in Level 0. This lead us to confusion, as it can mean that either all climbs are invalid, or that you can grab rungs 1 and 2 while on the ground.

Originally Posted by aknackrunism29

I was a bit curious about a few foggy
areas in the manual. I heard that a frisbee that is partially in the goal will be counted, but I have also heard that scoring will be through weight sensors, which may not detect a partially scored frisbee. Additionally, I was curious about the definition of the word "contact" in rule 3.1.5.2 (climb points). Lastly, can one alliance use the other alliance's colored frisbees?

The Robot 3.1.5.1

"A DISC is considered SCORED in an ALLIANCE’S GOAL if any part of the DISC has crossed through the opening of the GOAL, is in the GOAL at the end of the MATCH, and is not in contact with any ROBOT from that ALLIANCE. "
(Emphasis mine)
It seems that it must be all three, so it can be partially in, but it has to be there at the end of the match. (So if it bounces out, it doesn't count.)

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by cgmv123

The weight sensors are only used to provide live-scoring. If there's a mistake with them during a match, the score will be fixed accordingly.

Until the refs and FTA's get direction from on high that we will believe the sensors. Remember the Minibot poles? Remember the basketball hoops? Remember the DOGMA counts?

The only game where counts were officially adjusted was in Aim High, where the low-goal counters just plain didn't work. Even then, they didn't adjust the counts in the high goal when the pokey-pokey stick didn't clear the jam until after auton ended.

[V. Gray]

You are right, and the glossary even goes as far as to define the colour of the pyramid. This is an interesting point, and I'd like to see it clarified. However, the diagram that shows the point scoring method for the pyramid points to the ground and defines that as level zero.

[Johnbot]

Originally Posted by V. Gray

You are right, and the glossary even goes as far as to define the colour of the pyramid. This is an interesting point, and I'd like to see it clarified. However, the diagram that shows the point scoring method for the pyramid points to the ground and defines that as level zero.

I mean, we're 90% certain that it means the way we think it means, but gray areas are bad, and it's good to have them clarified from the start.

[DMFrank]

I think that if you read section 2.2.5 of the game manual, the pyramid is described as being secured to the floor via steel plates.

"The PYRAMID has four (4), 24 in. square, 11 GA. (.120 in.) steel bases with hook and loop tape (“hook” side) on the bottom. These bases secure the PYRAMIDS to the carpet. To prevent damage to venue floors, these metal bases are surrounded by floor protectors. These floor protectors are made from 1/8 in. thick hardboard. The floor protectors begin 12 in. outside of all the PYRAMID bases and continue to cover the floor underneath the PYRAMID (not including the bases themselves). Additional carpet covers both bases and floor protectors and is held to the carpet using 2 in. wide, Black gaffers tape. The protectors and carpet create a 1/4 - 3/8 in. lip around the PYRAMID."

I think the important part is that last sentence: "The protectors and carpet create a 1/4 - 3/8 in. lip around the PYRAMID."

So the Pyramid is on that lip and technically not the floor as seen in figure 2-8: PYRAMID Floor Protectors.

[AndyBare]

Originally Posted by DMFrank

I think that if you read section 2.2.5 of the game manual, the pyramid is described as being secured to the floor via steel plates.

"The PYRAMID has four (4), 24 in. square, 11 GA. (.120 in.) steel bases with hook and loop tape (“hook” side) on the bottom. These bases secure the PYRAMIDS to the carpet. To prevent damage to venue floors, these metal bases are surrounded by floor protectors. These floor protectors are made from 1/8 in. thick hardboard. The floor protectors begin 12 in. outside of all the PYRAMID bases and continue to cover the floor underneath the PYRAMID (not including the bases themselves). Additional carpet covers both bases and floor protectors and is held to the carpet using 2 in. wide, Black gaffers tape. The protectors and carpet create a 1/4 - 3/8 in. lip around the PYRAMID."

I think the important part is that last sentence: "The protectors and carpet create a 1/4 - 3/8 in. lip around the PYRAMID."

So the Pyramid is on that lip and technically not the floor as seen in figure 2-8: PYRAMID Floor Protectors.

I think it would be easier to say you might be overthinking this one a bit, i even am not sure, but would like to say im going to believe the floor is level 0, because it seems more realistic than a steal plate that connect the PYRAMID to the floor.

[DMFrank]

I wasn't thinking the steel plates. There is a lip created by the floor protectors so the Pyramid actually rests 1/4"-3/8" above the rest of the playing field.
This lip is what I understand to be level 0

[AndyBare]

Oh and this lip is flush with the pyramid plates?... that makes more sense, yeah, i'd believe that that is level 0, and looking at the picture here (3.1.5.2 CLIMB Points) looks believable, because bold line running all the way across.

[alectronic]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Can you tell me where his is specified? I don't believe you.

I agree, I find it unlikely that there will be a recount. If anything, it would maybe be recounted in elimination matches. To deal with discs "hanging" or sticking out of the goals, I would suspect they will just push them in with a pole, then go with the weight count.

I'm sure they will have to clarify at some point.