Go to Post You should always do CAD no matter how you plan on having parts made. - Garret [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 22:13
Slothbron's Avatar
Slothbron Slothbron is offline
Registered User
AKA: Nathan
FRC #3216 (Missoula Robotics Team)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 35
Slothbron is an unknown quantity at this point
Goal Tending Robot

So during our brainstorming sessions today the idea came up to build a pure defensive robot with a big wall that can expand out and in to block Frisbee's as they are shot. The question we have is, are there goal tending rules. We cant find anything in the rule book that would not allow this as long as we where not using it to delay the movement of the game by blocking the whole field and not letting anyone through. Over what do you guys think of this possibly strategy.
__________________
MRT 3216
2010- Salt lake City Highest Rookie Team seed
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 22:15
z_beeblebrox's Avatar
z_beeblebrox z_beeblebrox is offline
Custom User Title
AKA: Cal
FRC #4183 (Bit Buckets)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Cambridge MA
Posts: 811
z_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Goal Tending Robot

Your robot size is limited to a 54" cylinder. If you are in a position to block shots, you may not be more than 60" tall.
__________________
2012 Utah Regional Rookie All-Star
2013 Phoenix Regional Judge's Award for "design process and prototyping"
2014 Hub City Regional Quality Award, Arizona Regional Excellence in Engineering Award
2015 Arizona East Regional Creativity Award, Winner
2016 Arizona North Regional Finalist, Arizona West Excellence in Engineering Award, Finalist
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 22:21
Slothbron's Avatar
Slothbron Slothbron is offline
Registered User
AKA: Nathan
FRC #3216 (Missoula Robotics Team)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 35
Slothbron is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Goal Tending Robot

I understand the 54in cylinder, this would follow those constraints. But I thought you could be at 84in tall after the start of the match.
__________________
MRT 3216
2010- Salt lake City Highest Rookie Team seed
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 22:27
Mongai's Avatar
Mongai Mongai is offline
Indian Guy
AKA: Alec
FRC #0935 (RaileRobotics)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Newton, KS
Posts: 138
Mongai is just really niceMongai is just really niceMongai is just really niceMongai is just really niceMongai is just really nice
Re: Goal Tending Robot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slothbron View Post
I understand the 54in cylinder, this would follow those constraints. But I thought you could be at 84in tall after the start of the match.
With some exceptions.

Quote:
3.2.5.1 G22
ROBOT height (as defined in relation to the ROBOT) must be restricted as follows during the MATCH:
A. If in contact with the carpet in its AUTO ZONE and/or its PYRAMID, ? 84 in.
B. Otherwise, ? 60 in.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 22:42
Slothbron's Avatar
Slothbron Slothbron is offline
Registered User
AKA: Nathan
FRC #3216 (Missoula Robotics Team)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 35
Slothbron is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Goal Tending Robot

So is the Autozone the middle of the field and you would be able to be 84in tall there. But if you are on either side of that zone you can only be 60in tall?
__________________
MRT 3216
2010- Salt lake City Highest Rookie Team seed
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 22:49
LedLover97 LedLover97 is offline
Registered User
FRC #3397
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4
LedLover97 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Goal Tending Robot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slothbron View Post
So is the Autozone the middle of the field and you would be able to be 84in tall there. But if you are on either side of that zone you can only be 60in tall?
I believe for your robot to be 84" tall, it must be touching your alliance's pyramid or on the platform surrounding it. I could be wrong though, so feel free to correct me.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 22:52
z_beeblebrox's Avatar
z_beeblebrox z_beeblebrox is offline
Custom User Title
AKA: Cal
FRC #4183 (Bit Buckets)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Cambridge MA
Posts: 811
z_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond reputez_beeblebrox has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Goal Tending Robot

Quote:
3.2.5.1 G22
ROBOT height (as defined in relation to the ROBOT) must be restricted as follows during the MATCH:
A. If in contact with the carpet in its AUTO ZONE and/or its PYRAMID, ? 84 in.
B. Otherwise, ? 60 in.
The auto zone is the carpet behind the blue or red lines.
__________________
2012 Utah Regional Rookie All-Star
2013 Phoenix Regional Judge's Award for "design process and prototyping"
2014 Hub City Regional Quality Award, Arizona Regional Excellence in Engineering Award
2015 Arizona East Regional Creativity Award, Winner
2016 Arizona North Regional Finalist, Arizona West Excellence in Engineering Award, Finalist
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 22:53
ENeyman's Avatar
ENeyman ENeyman is offline
Registered User
AKA: Emmett Neyman
FRC #3929 (Atomic Dragons)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 134
ENeyman has a brilliant futureENeyman has a brilliant futureENeyman has a brilliant futureENeyman has a brilliant futureENeyman has a brilliant futureENeyman has a brilliant futureENeyman has a brilliant futureENeyman has a brilliant futureENeyman has a brilliant futureENeyman has a brilliant futureENeyman has a brilliant future
Re: Goal Tending Robot

Your AUTOZONE is "an area on either end of the FIELD bounded by the ALLIANCE WALL, FEEDER STATIONS, LOW GOAL, GUARDRAILS, and the nearest AUTO LINE."

so as long as you are on your side, you can be 84".
__________________

Mid-Atlantic Regional Championships (2012)- Rookie All-Star Award
World Championships (2012)- Rookie Inspiration Award

Chestnut Hill District, Mt. Olive District (2013)- Entrepreneurship Award
Lenape District (2014)- Winner
frc3929.org

  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 22:53
slijin's Avatar
slijin slijin is offline
Pockets
AKA: Samuel Lijin
FRC #0694 (StuyPulse)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: New York City
Posts: 537
slijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to beholdslijin is a splendid one to behold
Re: Goal Tending Robot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slothbron View Post
So is the Autozone the middle of the field and you would be able to be 84in tall there. But if you are on either side of that zone you can only be 60in tall?
Please read the manual.

Quote:
3.3.5 ROBOT Actions
G22 ROBOT height (as defined in relation to the ROBOT) must be restricted as follows during the MATCH:
A. If in contact with the carpet in its AUTO ZONE and/or its PYRAMID, ≤ 84 in.
B. Otherwise, ≤ 60 in.
Violation: FOUL. If continuous or repeated violations, TECHNICAL FOUL.

AUTO ZONE: an area on either end of the FIELD bounded by the ALLIANCE WALL, FEEDER STATIONS, LOW GOAL, GUARDRAILS, and the nearest AUTO LINE.

AUTO LINE: a line, marked in Red or Blue gaffers tape, located 108 in. from and parallel to the CENTER LINE.
Your robot may only be in the 60" - 84" height range if part of your robot is A) within (i.e. contacting the carpet of) your side of the field, or B) in contact with your pyramid,
__________________

2010-12 CT Chairman's
2011 Galileo 5th seed
2010 NY Regional Winners
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 22:58
Dr Theta's Avatar
Dr Theta Dr Theta is offline
Lead Mentor
AKA: Derek Messer
FRC #2232 (Deus Ex Machina)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Anoka, Minnesota
Posts: 351
Dr Theta has much to be proud ofDr Theta has much to be proud ofDr Theta has much to be proud ofDr Theta has much to be proud ofDr Theta has much to be proud ofDr Theta has much to be proud ofDr Theta has much to be proud ofDr Theta has much to be proud ofDr Theta has much to be proud ofDr Theta has much to be proud of
Re: Goal Tending Robot

I agree that wall-bots may be very viable this year. Most shooter discussion I have seen has involved robots with a low profile meaning they will be shooting from less than 30" off the ground on a relatively straight line to their target. It will be very difficult to shoot over a 60" tall wall parked in front of them.
__________________
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 22:58
MARS_James's Avatar
MARS_James MARS_James is offline
Always Scouting
AKA: James Comstock
FRC #0179 (The Children of The Swamp)
Team Role: Tactician
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Jupiter, Florida
Posts: 1,968
MARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond reputeMARS_James has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to MARS_James
Re: Goal Tending Robot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slothbron View Post
So during our brainstorming sessions today the idea came up to build a pure defensive robot with a big wall that can expand out and in to block Frisbee's as they are shot. .
We actually thought of this, and we decided that as opposed to a wall, just make it hang down the same chains used on the goals like a curtain. Any shots will deflect, or just fall
__________________
Driving Record: 24-8
Coaching Record: 66-31
2014 South Florida Regional Woodie Flowers Finalist


  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 23:03
pfreivald's Avatar
pfreivald pfreivald is offline
Registered User
AKA: Patrick Freivald
FRC #1551 (The Grapes of Wrath)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Naples, NY
Posts: 2,304
pfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Goal Tending Robot

A. If you're in a position to block shots--that is to say, in your opponent's Auto Zone--your opponent can be up to 84" tall, and you can only be up to 60" tall.

B. Many shooters won't be 60" tall, and Frisbees shoot close to straight, so this will give you the impression that you can likely block a lot of shooters with a wall-bot. But you probably can't, because...

C. If you get in front of them, they can likely shoot over you because they can use the pyramid for protection -- they'll tuck mostly under it, and if you move up close enough to their robot to block their shots, they can bump you while still in contact with the pyramid and then get penalty points for their alliance. This will force you to stay a reasonable distance back from them, allowing them to shoot right over your head into the 3 or 2 point goals.

FIRST games are hard, and strategies can often be maddening. When considering robot design, I think it's a mistake not to hash out every strategic and tactical implication of any given design that you can possibly think of -- and to do that, you need to have an iron grasp on the rules.
__________________
Patrick Freivald -- Mentor
Team 1551
"The Grapes of Wrath"
Bausch & Lomb, PTC Corporation, and Naples High School

I write books, too!
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 23:33
Slothbron's Avatar
Slothbron Slothbron is offline
Registered User
AKA: Nathan
FRC #3216 (Missoula Robotics Team)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 35
Slothbron is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Goal Tending Robot

A good point on using the pyramid as a defensive object. In order for a goal tending strategy to work it will depend heavily on getting to the other robot before they reach their safe zones. The way I interpret the rules on pyramid penalties is in order to receive a penalty the other robot has to be in contact with its pyramid. So the distance you have to stay stay away is not that great.
Quote:
G30 Regardless of who initiates the contact, a robot may not contact an opponent Robot
A. contacting its pyramid
B. touching the carpet in its loading zone.
__________________
MRT 3216
2010- Salt lake City Highest Rookie Team seed

Last edited by Slothbron : 07-01-2013 at 23:37.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 23:43
MentorPrice's Avatar
MentorPrice MentorPrice is offline
Mentor/FIRST Alumni/Engineer
AKA: Kevin Price
FRC #1708 (Amp'D Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: McKeesport
Posts: 35
MentorPrice is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Goal Tending Robot

You can only be 60" tall in the defensive zone
__________________
Team #1708 Drive Team & Member (2006-2008)
Team #4547 Westmont Hilltoppers Mentor (2013-2014)
Team #1708 McKeesport Amp'D Robotics Mentor (2009-2012, Current)
“Life is and will ever remain an equation incapable of solution, but it contains certain known factors.”
Nikola Tesla
“A Machine to End War” (Liberty, February, 1935)
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-01-2013, 23:48
pfreivald's Avatar
pfreivald pfreivald is offline
Registered User
AKA: Patrick Freivald
FRC #1551 (The Grapes of Wrath)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Naples, NY
Posts: 2,304
pfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond reputepfreivald has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Goal Tending Robot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slothbron View Post
So the distance you have to stay stay away is not that great.
If our robot is 24" long (plus 3" of bumpers) and I'm parked so that the front of my robot is touching the leg of the pyramid, then you'd better stay at least 12-18" away (if not more) if you don't want to get a penalty...

As for what 12-18" away (plus your own 3" bumpers) does for goal-tending strategies, I'll leave that trigonometry up to all you students out there.
__________________
Patrick Freivald -- Mentor
Team 1551
"The Grapes of Wrath"
Bausch & Lomb, PTC Corporation, and Naples High School

I write books, too!
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:37.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi