Robot climbing times

[rsegrest]

Originally Posted by IKE

If we assume that the 4 seconds is a goal:
150 Lb robot = 667 N
60 Inch=1.5 meters estimated change in CG height
Time = 4 sec
667N*1.5m/4 sec = 250 Watts.

Assuming 50-75% efficient mechanism your power draw would be:
333-500 Watts.
That is a lot of power draw, but not unheard of.

Actually I would be surprised if anyone climbing didn't try to keep their weight waaaaaaaayyyyy under the 120 limit. A fast, light weight, utility climber might be a solid partner in an alliance...

[mikegrundvig]

Originally Posted by rsegrest

Actually I would be surprised if anyone climbing didn't try to keep their weight waaaaaaaayyyyy under the 120 limit. A fast, light weight, utility climber might be a solid partner in an alliance...

That's our plan - light as humanly possible. Sure wish we could use brushless motors w/lipo batteries like I do on my personal projects. Could get the whole robot in the 10-20 lbs range tops for what we are planning on doing.

-Mike

[AlexH]

Originally Posted by nuggetsyl

Ok whats you guess on how long it will take to climb to the top of the tower?

it will be like the minibots

some will be sub 5s and others will be much much slower.

[CalTran]

Originally Posted by AlexH

it will be like the minibots

some will be sub 5s and others will be much much slower.

Like said previously, I'm calling out sub 5s climbs as impossible.

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Nessy 2013 is the 4 second legal climb

I'm going out on a limb and saying that it's not going to happen. Feel free to prove me wrong, I really do.

EDIT: Team 217 has not deemed it impossible. It is simply highly unlikely.

[Paul Copioli]

Originally Posted by CalTran

Like said previously, I'm calling out sub 5s climbs as impossible.


If even Team 217 deems it as impossible, I'm going out on a limb and saying that it's not going to happen. Feel free to prove me wrong, I really do.

For clarification, Team 217 does not deem it impossible, I personally think it is like Nessy, some people will claim it, but none will prove it.

But I said the same thing last year about the triple balance ...

[pfreivald]

I've learned not to underestimate FRC teams...

I have a design that could make a rather smooth ~4-second climb, but we've deemed it beyond our ability to manufacture to desired specifications.

That said, I think well more teams will have ideas that could do it than teams that will have mechanisms that will.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

OK, I am going to cal lit right now. No way is anyone under 5 seconds. In 2010, some of the best robots took 2 - 3 seconds using power take-off from the drive train.

All I can say is ... Nessy 2013 is the 4 second legal climb.

It's possible from a power standpoint, but I agree the time will still be above 4 seconds due to the multiple grip handoffs.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by 45Auto

That is correct, for a CIM pulling 133 amps.

What kind of 40 amp circuit breakers are you using?

Just to be clear here, if you stall your CIMs when you're trying to climb, you're not moving anyway. You'll want to design your hanger so it runs at 30-some amps (or less) under load to get as close to the max power as you safely can. A little under is a good idea since your battery voltage will have dropped during the match.

You can generally safely run 1.5x-2x the breaker current for a few seconds without trouble. It's how most single speed drives begin pushing matches.

[Racer26]

I'm really interested to see the value proposition that the elite teams take. Every year, there seems to be a killer design component that the elite figure out early, and the rest struggle to implement after seeing the effectiveness.

see: 2012 stingers, 2011 ramped minibot launchers/minimalist minibots, 2010 ball magnets/hanging on the vertical bars

I have a sneaking suspicion that there will be a divide amongst the elite this year. Some will have 30pt climbers that are effective, and others will have a corner based 20pt climb thats ridiculously fast (like some of the stupidly fast hangers in 2010 [~2s])

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

For clarification, Team 217 does not deem it impossible, I personally think it is like Nessy, some people will claim it, but none will prove it.

I think we may see a sub 4-second climb by 1 or 2 teams once or twice. I don't think those teams will be able to do it consistently without major repair work.

[ptkunapuli478]

Originally Posted by 1075guy

I'm really interested to see the value proposition that the elite teams take. Every year, there seems to be a killer design component that the elite figure out early, and the rest struggle to implement after seeing the effectiveness.

see: 2012 stingers, 2011 ramped minibot launchers/minimalist minibots, 2010 ball magnets/hanging on the vertical bars

I have a sneaking suspicion that there will be a divide amongst the elite this year. Some will have 30pt climbers that are effective, and others will have a corner based 20pt climb thats ridiculously fast (like some of the stupidly fast hangers in 2010 [~2s])

I would tend to agree, but I feel like there may be "elite teams" that actually choose not to concern themselves with climbing and instead focus on shooting in the end game to make up for the points. It's important to remember that when that signal comes at the last thirty seconds, the human players will be going berserk trying to throw frisbees onto the field to make shooting easier for their alliance. So the shooting opportunity is very real in the last thirty seconds

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by ptkunapuli478

I would tend to agree, but I feel like there may be "elite teams" that actually choose not to concern themselves with climbing and instead focus on shooting in the end game to make up for the points.

Right-o. If you can shoot seven three pointers and make a ten-point hang on the lowest bar in the same amount of time, you just one-upped a "thirty point climb". Ten three pointers and no hang and you tied it.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by ptkunapuli478

...but I feel like there may be "elite teams" that actually choose not to concern themselves with climbing and instead focus on shooting in the end game to make up for the points. It's important to remember that when that signal comes at the last thirty seconds, the human players will be going berserk trying to throw frisbees onto the field to make shooting easier for their alliance. So the shooting opportunity is very real in the last thirty seconds

Unless their team's number is 1717*, I don't think even the elite teams can consistently score 30 disc points in 10-20 seconds by themselves. 20-21 disc pts + a 10-pt climb may be more feasible, but 30 disc points is tough.

Plus, elite alliances won't have any discs left to huck at the end. (edit-- this doesn't account for the possibility of a higher-accuracy score of 4 colored discs into the pyramid goal either).

So I definitely think that high-caliber teams want a 30-point climb as an option for endgame.

*Of course, the kids who built an 18-shot bot last year aren't on that team any more

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

Right-o. If you can shoot seven three pointers and make a ten-point hang on the lowest bar in the same amount of time, you just one-upped a "thirty point climb". Ten three pointers and no hang and you tied it.

I expect as always that the average team will struggle to score 7 3pters in the entire match.

The elite will be able to, but the best will 30pt hang in under 15 seconds also.

[JABot67]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

All I can say is ... Nessy 2013 is the 4 second legal climb.

Do I see a return of the Loch Ness Monster stickers from last year??

67 better get on this!

Not that I think it is possible to get up the pyramid in 4 seconds or less.