Climbing Mechanism Ideas

[who716]

Originally Posted by Rishabhgadi

That was my initial idea, but you would not reach past the first level because of the notches on the side which stick out about an inch.

You could have a mechanism that grabs onto the notches lift you up just enough that you can then go back to climbing the rail

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by Alex.q

(I say someone and not me because I am just an alum and my team doesn't want to climb past lvl 1).

Hey! Not precisely true! We're prototyping for both level one and level three designs!

On another note, perhaps a dual engagement version of 2056's 2010 climbing mechanism would work. The first "climber" contacts the module, and the robot is lifted to vertical (or maybe so that the side of the robot is roughly parallel to the side pole, rolls up to the first bump, at which point the second set engages above the bump and the first stage disengages. Repeating this process would lead to a "hand-over-hand" approach to climbing the side.

Of course, balance would be a possible issue here...

Challenges like this are what makes FIRST so fun!

[MrBydlon]

Originally Posted by sentientfungus

Hey! Not precisely true! We're prototyping for both level one and level three designs!

On another note, perhaps a dual engagement version of 2056's 2010 climbing mechanism would work. The first "climber" contacts the module, and the robot is lifted to vertical (or maybe so that the side of the robot is roughly parallel to the side pole, rolls up to the first bump, at which point the second set engages above the bump and the first stage disengages. Repeating this process would lead to a "hand-over-hand" approach to climbing the side.

Of course, balance would be a possible issue here...

Challenges like this are what makes FIRST so fun!

This is EXACTLY what our team originally talked about! We based our original thinking off of Team 33 Killer Bees' hanger arm but essentially the same idea. A tumbling robot up the pyramid. The first arm would rotate the robot 180 degrees. Then the second would grip and flip the robot over again and so on.

Our new thoughts have gone in a direction of two arms and a horseshoe shaped wide robot. Lots more prototyping to do...

[cadandcookies]

Actually we were thinking sans the tumbling, as that seems overly complicated. As much as I love to see robots flipping over, it seems slower and more prone to failure than a (fairly) straight shot up the pyramid.

Do you think that the horseshoe is an inefficient use of perimeter? Or is it really just having an open side? I am interested in seeing what mechanism makes that make sense though...

[Alex.q]

Originally Posted by sentientfungus

Actually we were thinking sans the tumbling, as that seems overly complicated. As much as I love to see robots flipping over, it seems slower and more prone to failure than a (fairly) straight shot up the pyramid.

Do you think that the horseshoe is an inefficient use of perimeter? Or is it really just having an open side? I am interested in seeing what mechanism makes that make sense though...

If what you mean by a horseshoe shaped frame is a frame wih a cutout on one side for an intake mechanism or for climbing purposes, it does not get included in the 112 inches of robot perimeter; the perimeter is the convex frame of the robot, so it does not include cutouts. See the rectangluar robot picture in Rule R03, figure 4.1.

I think there will be teams that manage to climb by repeated flipping the robot as previously described, but in my understanding, it would require a failry flat and symmetric robot, which could heavily constrain the designs of a shooter and hopper.

[cadandcookies]

Originally Posted by Alex.q

If what you mean by a horseshoe shaped frame is a frame wih a cutout on one side for an intake mechanism or for climbing purposes, it does not get included in the 112 inches of robot perimeter; the perimeter is the convex frame of the robot, so it does not include cutouts. See the rectangluar robot picture in Rule R03, figure 4.1.

Ah. Thanks for explaining that. It makes more sense now.

Originally Posted by Alex.q

I think there will be teams that manage to climb by repeated flipping the robot as previously described, but in my understanding, it would require a failry flat and symmetric robot, which could heavily constrain the designs of a shooter and hopper.

I'm betting there will be teams that do it too. I am fairly sure you could do it with a rectangular-ly shaped robot in non-three dimensions, if the superstructure was supportive enough. I would see it as attaching the first side face, then pulling up, then attaching from the top of that face, and pulling up, and so on. Of course, that's just a concept.

[Oakley Marie]

[mendeleev79]

Not sure if this idea has been said yet, but I thought it might work to have a setup similar to the Team 2648 Breakaway bot (http://www.team2648.com/our-robots.html). If you have two of the arms shown on each end of the robot, it would be fairly easy to have one attach to the first level, lift the robot off the ground, and then have the second arm on the back attach to level 2. I don't think it would be feasible for it to reach level 3, but I thought it was a decent plan.

A problem with this, however, is that the first level is only 30 inches off the ground, which might make it difficult to accomplish the lifting mechanism shown.

Any ideas on this?

[F22Rapture]

Originally Posted by mendeleev79

A problem with this, however, is that the first level is only 30 inches off the ground, which might make it difficult to accomplish the lifting mechanism shown.

Any ideas on this?

A ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID in
A. sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent and B. no more than two (2) Levels simultaneously.

Emphasis mine

I'm interpreting this that you don't have to "climb" the first level, merely touch it. So maybe if you did a Robot-in-3-days-esque climber that barely lifts the robot at all, and that would be enough to "contact" the first level and continue on to the second.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by F22Rapture

Emphasis mine

I'm interpreting this that you don't have to "climb" the first level, merely touch it. So maybe if you did a Robot-in-3-days-esque climber that barely lifts the robot at all, and that would be enough to "contact" the first level and continue on to the second.

I think the hard part is not re-contacting the floor once you've lifted yourself onto level one. A level-one chin-up will be difficult to turn into a level-two climb, methinks...

Those grippers that just don't slide when they grab a pipe might damage the powdercoat, and that might disqualify mechanisms from gameplay. (I'm not sure on that one, but it's worth considering.)

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by F22Rapture

Emphasis mine

I'm interpreting this that you don't have to "climb" the first level, merely touch it. So maybe if you did a Robot-in-3-days-esque climber that barely lifts the robot at all, and that would be enough to "contact" the first level and continue on to the second.

Points for the climb are awarded based on the zone lowest point on the robot occupies. If you touch level 1 but do not lift off of level 0 (the ground), you will be awarded points based on being "in" level 0, which is no points. You must lift off the ground to receive level 1 points.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

Those grippers that just don't slide when they grab a pipe might damage the powdercoat, and that might disqualify mechanisms from gameplay. (I'm not sure on that one, but it's worth considering.)

I'm really worried about this, and I'm a little surprised there hasn't been more talk of it--am I missing something? I still like the 2010-esque latches (that can move out of the way of the horizontal crossbars) for this, but I don't even know how I'd know if they damaged the powercoat until competition time. Heck of a thing to be find illegal and lose 10-30pts/match over.

@Nuttyman54: you know you're agreeing with him, right? (re: "barely lifts the robot")

[F22Rapture]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

Points for the climb are awarded based on the zone lowest point on the robot occupies. If you touch level 1 but do not lift off of level 0 (the ground), you will be awarded points based on being "in" level 0, which is no points. You must lift off the ground to receive level 1 points.

My point was, if you go back and look at the video he linked, he expressed concerns that that mechanism wouldn't work because (paraphrasing) "it had to climb level one first, which is only 30" high." I was saying that because the wording of the rule is "contacts," it doesn't have to. It has to touch each level sequentially, and no more than two at once, but it doesn't have to climb each and every level.

So, my thought was, a mechanism that clearly touches the first level (by lifting the robot slightly) would be enough to satisfy that requirement before using the mechanism in the video to lift up to level 2, and hang for the 20 points.

[Jorge Ayala]

Is this legal? http://youtu.be/OY4BAbgWvdY

I see the robot being in more than two leves at the same time but only touching two.

[nikeairmancurry]

Originally Posted by Jorge Ayala

Is this legal? http://youtu.be/OY4BAbgWvdY

I see the robot being in more than two leves at the same time but only touching two.

I would say yes, after the hook is placed you are only contacting two levels (it looks like the track maybe contacting the 2nd level) the floor and first. Then after the lift, the robot is in level one only. When the second hook is deployed, you are in contact with on two levels again, making it still a legal climb and so on.

This was an idea I presented today, I think its a great one.