Mecanum vs Treads

[MARS_James]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Also important, mecanums need all four wheels solidly on the ground to function correctly. See that drawing of that bump around the entire pyramid? That bump means mecanums are going to hate driving near the pyramids. Any precision driving you try to do near the pyramids is guaranteed to take twice as long on mecanums as it would on a 6 wheel drive.

I don't understand this at all, how does the bump make mecanums not work? We used them last year and got double or single bridge balances very easily

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by MARS_James

I don't understand this at all, how does the bump make mecanums not work? We used them last year and got double or single bridge balances very easily

It has to deal with weight. Meccanum drive relies on an even weight distribution on each wheel for accurate strafing and turning. if you don't have that, the robot will strafe in a slightly offset angle. Introduce a different height for 2 wheels, and suddenly your back wheels have more weight than your front. It only affects strafing though, if I remember correctly.

Also, some non selling points for meccanum:

Actually learning to take advantage of strafe is harder than it looks. Have you ever played Halo and strafed at all? I don't think i've strafed at all when fighting in Halo 4. I'll bet when you play halo, the majority of the time you move the player's orientation and have him walking in that direction instead of strafing. The only times I strafe is to snipe and to avoid shots, both of which probably won't be done in this year's FRC game.

Meccanum also uses the vectors of motion on the wheel to produce strafing motion. Unless your PID is tuned to godly precision, you're always going to have some cancelled force, reducing your strafing accuracy and your power.

Also, the coefficient of friction on those wheels is low. Unless your control system has taken account for your driver
s tendencies, its going to be a lot easier to slip and waste even more drivetrain power.

See if these outweigh any advantage you think you may be getting. I don't know, they might for you.

[JamesCH95]

I would questions two things in your thought process.

First do you really think picking up frisbees will be worth compromising your drivetrain decision? It may be an okay strategy for qualifications, but if you're picking up non-trivial amounts of discs in eliminations it means either 1) your alliance partners are missing lots of shots (very bad, you probably can't make up for them) or 2) your opponents are missing lots of shots (in which case they aren't a very serious opponent anyway) or 3) it's the last 30s of the match, human players are throwing discs in, and you can reliably score more points by hanging than a last-minute grab and shoot of a few discs.

Second, if your robot is touching your pyramid you're more or less protected from being interfered with while shooting. Additionally, your robot can be aligned against the pyramid to help your aim.

In my mind you don't have a really strong argument for either mecanum wheels or treads. To pick between the two I would say treads would make your more effective at breaking past defensive robots, provided they could be fast enough to effectively traverse the field end-to-end (10-12ft/s I'd guess). However, I think a 6WD drivetrain would be at least as effective as treads.

[philso]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

See that drawing of that bump around the entire pyramid? That bump means mecanums are going to hate driving near the pyramids.

Kevin is wrong! The mechanums are innanimate objects so they are not capable of hating. It will be the pit crew who have to fix the mechanums after the drivers bump into the lip around the pyramids who will be doing the hating.

At Alamo last year, we learned that we had to check that all the rollers on all four mechanums were turning freely after each and every match. If a roller was binding, we removed it and bent the aluminum spider back out. Bumping into the edge of the bridge (lowered) was just one way to bend the aluminum spiders. Just a few (2-3) binding rollers caused the robot to deviate from the expected path in unpredictable ways. We could see the driving performance degrade throughout a match. I am sure this messes up your force vector diagrams.

We also found that the rollers on our mechanums would bind when new because the urethane had coated the inside of the brass bushings. It took a lot of work to disassemble them and clean them out so that they would spin freely.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mrNH0Czq0Il

[MamaSpoldi]

Originally Posted by Wing

It has to deal with weight. Meccanum drive relies on an even weight distribution on each wheel for accurate strafing and turning. if you don't have that, the robot will strafe in a slightly offset angle. Introduce a different height for 2 wheels, and suddenly your back wheels have more weight than your front. It only affects strafing though, if I remember correctly.

In our experience, a properly implemented gyro-stabilization in the control loop for the mecanums make them very controllable and maneuverable. In addition you can certainly take advantage of the protection of touching the pyramid for shooting without fear of being pushed/bumped.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by MARS_James

I don't understand this at all, how does the bump make mecanums not work? We used them last year and got double or single bridge balances very easily

Take a look at the force vector diagram for the mecanum drivetrain. The wheels always apply force at 45 degrees from the direction of the wheel rim. The only reason you can drive straight with them is because opposite pairs of wheels push against each other, cancelling the sideways force and resulting in straight motion. When you take one of those wheels out of the equation or start shifting weights unevenly between wheels, things start getting wonky pretty quickly. The fact that the rollers aren't perfectly frictionless means driving straight isn't affected quite as much as strafing, but the effect is still there.