Vacuum Motors

[GAQA]

Is there any specific motor on the list that can be used to generate vacuum?

[nathan_hui]

Any specific motor to generate a vacuum? Not unless you hook it up to a vacuum. The snow blower motor looks promising - snow blowers run a pusher/vacuum system to push snow out (unless I've greatly mistaken how a snow blower works). Some of our other mentors suggested taking a shop-vac, removing the AC motor and sticking in an FRC motor to make it legal.

More than likely any motor will do (except for the window motor). The hard part will be attaching it to the vacuum generating device (a propeller/impeller of sorts). I believe the key to a vacuum going well is speed, but don't cite me on that.

[Mark McLeod]

Not the snow blower motor. It's only slightly better than a window motor.
It's not for blowing snow, interestingly enough. It only rides on a snow blower and probably turns the turret.

[Andy A.]

Conceivably, you could use any of the 2013 motors from a rules compliance standpoint. Vacuum devices are not considered pneumatic components, so they are only subject to the general robot rules regarding mechanisms. You could fabricate or purchase a vacuum pump and power it with whichever motor(s) you pleased.

As per my reading of the rules, venturi type vacuum generators, which are powered by compressed air, are not legal as they are not explicitly permitted in R78.

[karomata]

Last night a few teammates and I were trying a fan theory, in which we could play strong defense by blowing the frisbees off their flight paths using a large fan. We ended up having to use a leaf blower to get the effect we needed, and to create the strength of the motor in the leaf blower, we would need stronger motors than we are allowed to use. However, we did come up with the idea of using air cannons to deflect frisbees. This could be feasable, and we even started thinking about aiming it, and how hard it would be. So we thought we could use sensors, although it would be very complex and it goes against our teams motto for the year: Simplicity & Elegance. I would really like to see a team with like 2 air cannons that act like anti aircraft bases, and alternate fire and can even track frisbees flying nearby.

[nathan_hui]

I thought we were playing Frisbee, not a wargame... I must be in the wrong forum.

[Ken Streeter]

Originally Posted by GAQA

Is there any specific motor on the list that can be used to generate vacuum?

Our team has had success in the past with converting a commercial Black & Decker battery-powered handheld vacuum cleaner. All you actually want from the vacuum is the impeller and housing. After disasembling the vacuum, the impeller and housing need to be adapted to use a legal FIRST motor. If you find a commercial vacuum cleaner that uses a 5xx-series motor, this is actually quite straightforward. We did this in 2010 for Breakaway with great success. That year we used the Fisher-Price motor in the vacuum. That motor is no longer FIRST-legal, but either the BaneBots or AndyMark 5xx-series motors which are FIRST-legal for 2013 are likely to work just fine.

As to whether or not such a vacuum can hold on tightly, simply refer to the photo below. For those of you that weren't with FIRST in 2008 for "Overdrive" I would note that the trackball weighed about 10 pounds. The frisbees are about 180 grams.

Link to Post on 1519 Facebook page.

[craftwerksrc]

By any chance do you have the model of that B&D handheld vac that you used? I am currently working on a DIY project and bought a Dewalt 18v DC515 vac and looking to get something cordless with more suction.

Thanks in advance!

[Ken Streeter]

Originally Posted by craftwerksrc

By any chance do you have the model of that B&D handheld vac that you used? I am currently working on a DIY project and bought a Dewalt 18v DC515 vac and looking to get something cordless with more suction.

I just checked our 2010 Bill of Materials and didn't have the part number recorded, just "Black & Decker Dustbuster Vacuum Cleaner" bought at Walmart for $35.96 each in 2010.

I'll check to see if we have any of the housings left at our build location so that I can get the model number, but I think we may have thrown them all out some time last year.

In order to get more suction, you can put two vacuums in series to increase the pressure differential (kind of like putting two batteries in series to increase voltage).

[craftwerksrc]

Thanks for checking into that... I am looking @ some of the B&D cordless options online right now.

I am also trying to spec out the Dewalt motor in the DC515 I already bought to see If I can't possibly upgrade that.

[DRH2o]

Originally Posted by Andy A.

Conceivably, you could use any of the 2013 motors from a rules compliance standpoint. Vacuum devices are not considered pneumatic components, so they are only subject to the general robot rules regarding mechanisms. You could fabricate or purchase a vacuum pump and power it with whichever motor(s) you pleased.

As per my reading of the rules, venturi type vacuum generators, which are powered by compressed air, are not legal as they are not explicitly permitted in R78.

Not true based on this Q&A Answer. I thought the same thing so I asked.
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/...eumatic-system

[DonRotolo]

We went to Lowes and bought a vacuum cleaner called a bucket vac. It cost us about $22. The vacuum impeller is exactly the right size to fit on a CIM shaft, we use custom made shaft collars to hold the impeller in place and keep it from spinning. The plastic housing is also perfect for mounting a mini CIM, and it comes with some vacuum hose which we are using also.

It is not very powerful but more than powerful enough to pick up a frisbee.

[Lightfoot26]

I honestly suggest no motor at all, implement a pneumatic system (If you are not currently implementing one...) and add an in line vacuum generator. Here's an explanation of how they work... http://store.workshopsupply.com/cata...or-p-2537.html

I suggest Piab, good brand! http://www.piab.com/en-US/Products/V...l-49-108-scfm/

Now, we've never used them on a robot, so I don't have any experience to share...but I've done plenty of research as well as having a father working at a shop that uses them, to know where to turn next time my team asks for a vacuum system.

just my 2 cents!