Pyramid rule clarification

[JB987]

Originally Posted by joshjet

I'm sorry, but I guess I still don't understand completely. Does this mean that we would be unable to reach directly to the second bar while sitting on the ground?

Yes...

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by joshjet

I'm sorry, but I guess I still don't understand completely. Does this mean that we would be unable to reach directly to the second bar while sitting on the ground?

If you're sitting on the ground, you are in contact with Level 0. If you then touch the second bar, you are in contact with the pyramid in Level 2. Contact in levels 0 and 2 simultaneously invalidates a CLIMB attempt.

[DjScribbles]

The Q&A has cleared up a few points of confusion regarding climbing (one pointed out earlier):

The decision of whether or not a climb is valid/invalid is made based on where the robot makes contact with the pyramid only, not air space *1. Sequential contact means in order, but also not skipping levels *2.

*1

Q.Figure 3-4 on page 28/90 shows Level 2 just above the horizontal bar. Since the rule states no
more than two zones why is it (or is it) permissible to hook the pipe while still on the floor and if so
how far into level 2 can you go? Does that include the side pipes?
A.The requirements in Section 3.1.5.2 A and B pertain to the ROBOT'S contact with the PYRAMID
and/or floor within each Level, not the ROBOT'S presence in the physical space of the Level.

*2

Q.Can the robot go from the floor to level 2 while climbing the pyramid or does it have to climb to
level 1 first and then level 2? I need clarification
A.Per Section 3.1.5.2, a ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID and/or the floor (Level 0) in sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent. Skipping a level (i.e. going from
the floor directly to Level 2) would not meet the "sequential order" requirement.

The scoring of your robot however, is determined by the lowest air space (zone) is occupies *3, including the bumpers *4.

*3

Q.Is the climb score counted by lowest point relative to a horizontal plane at the top of each rung,
or by the lowest point of the robot physically touching the tower. I.E. If an robot is hanging down
into zone 2, but is touching only the steel in zone 3, is his score 20 or 30?
A.Per Section 3.1.5.2, the Level to which a ROBOT has CLIMBED is determined by the lowest point
of the ROBOT (not the lowest point of the ROBOT contacting the PYRAMID).

*4

Q.When hanging does the lowest point of the robot include the bumpers?
A.Yes.

Also, while not directly related to the pyramid, Q&A has also stated that the 54" cylinder limit for appendages is always with respect to the ground, so while climbing at a 68deg angle, an appendage that would extend outside the 54" cylinder when flat on the ground may be used *5. Conversely, the height requirement of 60"/84" is always taken with respect to the base of the robot *6.

*5

Q.Is the 54 inch envelope diameter (figure 3-5) orientation sensitive ie is its axis always vertical
regardless of the robots axis ie such as when the robot climbs?
A.The vertical cylinder specified in G23 is not coupled with the ROBOT's orientation and is always
vertical.

*6

Q.Rule G22 places height restrictions "in relation to the ROBOT." Does this apply to G23 (horizontal
restrictions)? When climbing the pyramid, extending an appendage "out" from the robot but "up" in
space might extend past the cylinder if it is taken relative to the robot, as opposed to the ground.
A.The height requirement in G22 is relative to the ROBOT. The horizontal volume requirement of
G23 is relative to the FIELD (see answer to [Q15]).

A lot of the conclusions I've stated are reinforced by multiple answers to similar questions, I tried to pick the most clear instance, but please check the Q&A if I didn't justify all of my conclusions completely, and if I'm wrong, do correct me

[nighterfighter]

Q.Can the robot go from the floor to level 2 while climbing the pyramid or does it have to climb to
level 1 first and then level 2? I need clarification
A.Per Section 3.1.5.2, a ROBOT has CLIMBED its PYRAMID if it contacts the PYRAMID and/or the floor (Level 0) in sequential order (Level 0, 1, 2, 3) during ascent. Skipping a level (i.e. going from
the floor directly to Level 2) would not meet the "sequential order" requirement.

So to play devil's advocate:

Could a robot sit on the floor (Level 0), extend up their arm and touch the bar (level 1), back off the bar (no longer in contact with level 1, but HAS satisfied the requirement of sequential order) then extend to the level 2 bar and attach itself to that bar, while still on the ground, before winching themselves up?

The robot made sequential contact with Level 0 -> Level 1 -> Level 2, but during the time between Level 1 and Level 2, remained in contact with Level 0.

[Jimmy Nichols]

Originally Posted by Yankeefan181

...you may want to re-download the rules.

Just a tip, you may want to either download the FRC Manual app or bookmark the link as there will be Manual updates twice a week. You do not want to be designing on an interpretation of the rules only to find out the rule was updated weeks early.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by nighterfighter

So to play devil's advocate:

Could a robot sit on the floor (Level 0), extend up their arm and touch the bar (level 1), back off the bar (no longer in contact with level 1, but HAS satisfied the requirement of sequential order) then extend to the level 2 bar and attach itself to that bar, while still on the ground, before winching themselves up?

The robot made sequential contact with Level 0 -> Level 1 -> Level 2, but during the time between Level 1 and Level 2, remained in contact with Level 0.

That series of events would be 0-1-0-2 which is not sequential.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by Taylor

That series of events would be 0-1-0-2 which is not sequential.

Good point.