Prelim Photon Cannon Test

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by jacob9706

Why is everyone using such bright lights?? There is absolutely no need for this overkill. Last year we used a really dim (and I mean like a 2 dollar toy keychain light) to illuminate the targets.

If you use a dim colored light the retro reflective properties of the tape will allow you to get a nice HSV range you can use in your programs.

Thats all we had to test with, we are looking at 1000 lum focused, we are not going to use a computer vision tracking, its for our driver. When he sees the light on the reflective tape he can shot. This will give us an arc in front of the goals

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by falconmaster

...When he sees the light on the reflective tape he can shot...

The drivers won't see much of a reflection from the retroreflective tape itself. It does a very good job of sending light right back at the source.

[Undertones]

During the photon cannon preliminary tests for 4334, I noticed that even with the light pointed considerably high above one's head, the source of light still makes for a very bright and potentially very distracting element. Especially with extremely high powered light sources such as this one. As a driver, this is something that I am seriously worried about.

[Brandon_L]

Originally Posted by Undertones

During the photon cannon preliminary tests for 4334, I noticed that even with the light pointed considerably high above one's head, the source of light still makes for a very bright and potentially very distracting element. Especially with extremely high powered light sources such as this one. As a driver, this is something that I am seriously worried about.

Being on the opposite end of 25's photon cannon last season, I'd have to agree with you.

Seeing more and more of these on the field wont be fun

[S.P.A.M.er 17]

Our driver greatly benefited from have a photon cannon guided system. Never having to look away from the field made it a lot easier to line up. Since our robot only had one shooting range, the light lined up almost guaranteed the shot. It is definitely something to look into if you are having trouble getting the camera tracking to work for you.

Originally Posted by Brandon_L

Seeing more and more of these on the field wont be fun

Now given the simplicity and the benefits of a light, I wouldn't be surprised to seeing a lot more teams using a flashlight. I would have to agree that to anyone on the field, this could get annoying fast. Six separate beams of photons will not make it easy on the drivers. Though it could be cool from the stands. I don't think Dean Kamen ever imagined FIRST evolving into a ROBOT RAVE.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Undertones

During the photon cannon preliminary tests for 4334, I noticed that even with the light pointed considerably high above one's head, the source of light still makes for a very bright and potentially very distracting element. Especially with extremely high powered light sources such as this one. As a driver, this is something that I am seriously worried about.

Seconded.

I know some of last year's high powered lights were verrrry intense and distracting when I was standing just behind and to the right of a driver's station during a match in St. Louis.

If you are not permitted to drape a sheet over a driver station to block the view of an opposing driver, why is it ok to blind them with a high powered flashlight?

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

If you are not permitted to drape a sheet over a driver station to block the view of an opposing driver, why is it ok to blind them with a high powered flashlight?

We're planning on this; if ours sees action, we'll work to keep it in check and Less Obnoxious.

[fox46]

Back in 2001 I participated in a spinoff of FIRST called "Canada First" (As our FIRST had yet to come to Canada). The competition that year involved firing squash balls at targets. Lasers were prohibited so we used a 35W household halogen 12V pot light in a cardboard tube with a magnifying glass mounted inside the tube at the appropriate focal length to project a perfect "spot" on the targets. We inserted a piece of aluminum with a + slot machined in it and the result was a perfect crisp projection of a crosshairs on the targets. It worked magnificently well.

This being said, that competition, all the drivers were oriented to face the same direction and the targets were opaque so nobody was exposed to any aiming lights. I must say that if I felt it was impeding my drive team's ability to compete I would not have any bad feelings about launching a complaint against the offending device. FIRST has given you some incredible tools at your disposal (CRIO and Axis Camera). You should be endeavoring to use them and learn as much about the technology as possible.

[cdizzle]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

The drivers won't see much of a reflection from the retroreflective tape itself. It does a very good job of sending light right back at the source.

Yeah, but the driver will have a camera mounted on the robot, so when the light reflects back on the robot, the camera will catch it and the driver can shoot, especially if the light is a ring light that is mounted on the camera.

[falconmaster]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

The drivers won't see much of a reflection from the retroreflective tape itself. It does a very good job of sending light right back at the source.

Ooops well then we will have to use the wall above the retro reflective tape.....

[Undertones]

We used a latest generation Maglight for our tests, and I was seeing spots for about 5 minutes after looking at the beam even from a fairly high angle. I don't think my eyes are particularly light sensitive, but having a bunch of high powered flashlights on the field could potentially be eye-damaging or at least seriously annoying. I realize that the easy solution is to wear tinted safetys, but I don't think anyone really wants to do that.

[Anupam Goli]

How exactly would you tune the photon gate as your primary aiming system? Would you have the driver look for a certain arc height, intensity, or what? I've become mildly interested in using this, especially so the drivers wouldn't have to hunch over and look on the screen to aim.

[lemiant]

To further elaborate on Mac's point. We were actually wondering whether FIRST would disallow the configuration we were testing as either a safety hazard or an attempt to interfere with the vision of the opposing drivers (as our goals are directly above the opposing drivers). What lights are you guys finding give you the most effective and concentrated beam?

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by lemiant

To further elaborate on Mac's point. We were actually wondering whether FIRST would disallow the configuration we were testing as either a safety hazard or an attempt to interfere with the vision of the opposing drivers (as our goals are directly above the opposing drivers). What lights are you guys finding give you the most effective and concentrated beam?

Again, as someone who was at one point on the other side of 25's light, initially (ie. right as the match began), it was a distraction, but it was more of just an "aaah light!", and from then on, it wasn't really a distraction(ie. the distraction didn't last long). IMO there were other teams with bright LED rings that proved more of a distraction.

[EricS-Team180]

Originally Posted by Wing

How exactly would you tune the photon gate as your primary aiming system? Would you have the driver look for a certain arc height, intensity, or what? I've become mildly interested in using this, especially so the drivers wouldn't have to hunch over and look on the screen to aim.

You want to design a targeting system to keep you driver and operator's eyes on the field! Lining up and shooting quickly is critical to getting a lot of shots on-goal. Leave Dashboards for the coaches, if need be...and for trouble-shooting in-game robot issues.

For an automatic targeting system, a driver/operator needs to be able to engage/dis-engage the system and trust that the software/hardware can line up the shot. Or they won't use it...period.

In 2012, for a manual system, we tweaked and tweaked the flashlight mount, tweaked and tweaked the shooter angle and speed, and practiced and practiced with the driver to define a "sweet spot" on the target above the basket. Position the robot to hit the sweet spot with the flashlight, and make the basket.

thanks,
Eric