Visualizing the 54in cylinder

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Ken Streeter

If an attempt is made by inspectors and referees to require the rule to be satisfied, they will be the "bad guys" for many teams that didn't fully understand the limitation and come to tournaments with robots that are illegal in some circumstances. Referees will have to make judgment calls that will be hard to substantiate either way. Many teams will have invested countless hours building robots that are regularly illegal.

...

From my perspective, the 54" cylinder rule is a practically unenforceable rule that is big lose-lose scenario. Why the GDC would not learn from past mistakes and continue to make such unenforceable rules is a mystery to me. I've even mentioned rules such as this on previous end-of-season surveys...

In past years where we had maximum expansion rules (such as intakes last year) inspectors were asked to check if the robots could expand beyond that. If they COULD they would be noted and be watched closer. This isn't optimal but it's the best we mere mortals can do I guess (I hate volume limitations like this).

[JamesCH95]

Here is 'half a robot in half a can'.

Note that it is slightly taller than 84in in this configuration relative to the ground.

http://i.imgur.com/Jrabk.png?1

[JVN]

In the grand scheme of "ways teams can knowingly cheat" designing a robot which goes outside the 54" cylinder isn't even in the top 5. This rule, like many others, will primarily be enforced by the honor system.

148 will (of course) design our robot so that it doesn't violate the rule. That goes without saying for us.

-John

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by JVN

In the grand scheme of "ways teams can knowingly cheat" designing a robot which goes outside the 54" cylinder isn't even in the top 5. This rule, like many others, will primarily be enforced by the honor system.

148 will (of course) design our robot so that it doesn't violate the rule. That goes without saying for us.

-John

I think the point of the above comments are that very few teams knowingly cheat but they just don't do their due diligence or lack a complete understanding of a complex rule. I inspected several events last year and had to surprise a few teams about their extension beyond the frame. At least we have simple bumper rules this year.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by JVN

In the grand scheme of "ways teams can knowingly cheat" designing a robot which goes outside the 54" cylinder isn't even in the top 5. This rule, like many others, will primarily be enforced by the honor system.

148 will (of course) design our robot so that it doesn't violate the rule. That goes without saying for us.

-John

Originally Posted by Hanlon's Razor

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Sad but true, there are plenty of teams that just don't read the rules all that well. I would be surprised if we didn't see at least one 28"x38" robot come March.

Rules like this put the impetus on the volunteers at the event to adequately enforce the rules that teams neglected to read. Based on other comments, it sounds like FIRST has made steps in that direction in subsequent years so hopefully it is a non-issue for teams that comply with the rules. And let's be frank, if you are paying $6,000 to compete you better have a few spare hours to actually read the rule book.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

I would be surprised if we didn't see at least one 28"x38" robot come March.

$@#$@#$@#$@#. I hadn't thought of that. What kind of remediation is going to be possible in order to get such a robot in compliance with the rules so the team can compete?

I suspect the most appropriate suggestion from the inspectors is going to be something like "Go build a smaller robot. We'll help however we can." I wonder how many teams can bring a spare KOP chassis box for just such an occasion.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I suspect the most appropriate suggestion from the inspectors is going to be something like "Go build a smaller robot. We'll help however we can." I wonder how many teams can bring a spare KOP chassis box for just such an occasion.

Hopefully a few per regional, but with the PDV for the kit base this year, I suspect there will be many fewer available because veteran teams who usually build custom frames won't have it just lying around...

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

Hopefully a few per regional, but with the PDV for the kit base this year, I suspect there will be many fewer available because veteran teams who usually build custom frames won't have it just lying around...

The only good thing about this situation is that teams that didn't know about the new size box are probably the same teams that didn't know they could opt out of the Kitbot. Hopefully they at least wondered why it was so small for long enough to open the rules.

If not, the old Kit rail is somewhat adaptable. Cut it just short of the middle holes for an 8WD and you have an unevenly spaced, zero drop six wheel drive ready to go. It *should* turn...