Designing a climbing mechanism for 2013... a humbling experience

[Tottanka]

Originally Posted by Leav

Hi everyone,

Just needed a place to vent a bit really... I've always thought of myself as a creative and resourceful mechanical engineer, but i've got to admit: this year's climbing challenge has got me stumped so far.

I usually have at least an idea for how the challenge can be accomplished, but the 30 point climb has eluded me thus far.

I'd love to hear from other technical people from the first community: has anyone managed to come up with a climbing concept that you would consider simple and/or robust?

I have no interest in knowing what the idea is (I'd like to solve the puzzle on my own, with the team), just to know either way if people feel like they have found a simple solution or not.

I am constantly thinking of the 2010 climbing challenge where I completely missed the "simple" grab&twist solution, and can't shake the feeling that I'm missing a similar one here.

Good luck and may the force be with you.

-Leav

Basically, every single idea iv'e heard or thought of so far has a huge risk, and in most of them that won't be something we are willing to take, strategically speaking.

Than again, I have been known to miss some ingenious stuff in bots that just seemed to work for other teams. (2010 climbers, 2008 shooters/collectors, 2012 stingers...)

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Player61

is there a rule for going past the top of the tower with the top end of your robot?

No, but there is the pyramid goal up there that you don't want to run into.

[nathan_hui]

I believe someone on CD posted a Q&A answer stating that Level 3 went effectively to infinity. I would take that to imply that you could go past the top of the tower (to the point where you started being unreasonable, so don't take off for the moon with your robot).

[FrankJ]

You still have to be in contact with the tower to get points. So you are actually limited to 84" or so.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Wwharrgarbl....

I thought we were working toward a doable design for corner climbing, but I was working from the 2011 robot relative right cylinder. Field relative makes things one heck of a lot more difficult for corner climbing. I'm glad we're designing and prototyping shooting mechanisms in tandem. Back to the drawing board and all that...

We're not back to the drawing board, but that sure did make it more difficult!

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by FrankJ

You still have to be in contact with the tower to get points. So you are actually limited to 84" or so.

Sir, please state the rule that says you must be in contact with the pyramid (or even transitively supported by it) in order to score CLIMB points.

Seriously, I don't see that anywhere. I've got Q's in to address whether a hoisted robot that's only ever touched Level 0 gets climb points, and whether driving on someone else's 2" tall ramp gets you 10 points.

[Leav]

Points are awarded for the highest Level achieved for every ALLIANCE ROBOT that CLIMBS its PYRAMID.

CLIMBING/CLIMB: the action of ascending the PYRAMID, defined in Section 3.1.5.2.

At the very least, i'd say the intent is clear.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Sir, please state the rule that says you must be in contact with the pyramid (or even transitively supported by it) in order to score CLIMB points.

Seriously, I don't see that anywhere. I've got Q's in to address whether a hoisted robot that's only ever touched Level 0 gets climb points, and whether driving on someone else's 2" tall ramp gets you 10 points.

A climb is negated if the robot don't touch the pyramid in sequential order.
Hoisting without sequential contact will not net any points... as soon as a robot goes above the first level the referee would push the button and the lights in the driver station would indicate a bad climb.

Good question about whether a robot that is above the floor and supported by another robot would get 10 points.

My guess is that the rule will change to read "fully supported by the pyramid" unless they want to move to more coopertition. In that case you could score two robots by simply having a piece of lexan flop down on either side of your robot that would fit a robot Would not even have to be 2" tall... any height above 0 would work.

[dellagd]

I asked a question on the Q&A and you can grab on the center post, the one in the middle of the pyramid goal too if you dont damage it.

[Fez]

Originally Posted by Tottanka

Basically, every single idea iv'e heard or thought of so far has a huge risk, and in most of them that won't be something we are willing to take, strategically speaking.

Than again, I have been known to miss some ingenious stuff in bots that just seemed to work for other teams. (2010 climbers, 2008 shooters/collectors, 2012 stingers...)

And to add to that, ideas that my team and others have been seen to be out of compliance with the rules. I foresee alot of rule changing within this years manual.

Also, there is a possibility that after the first competitions when bots fall off they may change the rules, or does the people who make the rules intend this to happen or oblivious to it?

[Garrett.d.w]

We have been wrestling with this since we got the challenge. Because we are concentrating on the climb aspect of the game, we want it to be safe and reliable. Two days ago we came up with a workable design. We prototyped it yesterday, and will be ordering parts from Bimba on Monday.

Let's just say that this idea has some air under it's wings
I'll show myself out.

We'll probably release a video later in the season once we have it working... hopefully.

Good luck. It's a great challenge and I can't wait to see what people come up with.

[craigboez]

You're not alone. Every year I wonder how the GDC will come up with a unique challenge, and every year they seem to figure it out.

We got out our telescopes to try and figure out a solution...

[RRLedford]

Originally Posted by Garrett.d.w

We have been wrestling with this since we got the challenge. Because we are concentrating on the climb aspect of the game, we want it to be safe and reliable. Two days ago we came up with a workable design. We prototyped it yesterday, and will be ordering parts from Bimba on Monday.

Let's just say that this idea has some air under it's wings
I'll show myself out.

We'll probably release a video later in the season once we have it working... hopefully.

Good luck. It's a great challenge and I can't wait to see what people come up with.

I track where you are heading with that clue, and we also are testing a seemingly similar "wings" concept, initially with cable tension and surgical tubing wing return.

We may switch to the heavier pneumatics later if we have to, but since we are not going to drive or ever leave the pyramid, our initial plan is to go for minimum possible weight approach first.

-Dick Ledford

[daniel_dsouza]

To answer the OP's question, yes we do have a scheme for reaching 30 pts, both by going up the diagonal, and by climbing "hand over hand." However, we are probably not going to do either 30pt scheme, instead aiming for a 20pt scheme.

I'd have to agree that only a few teams will score 30 pts every game.

However, it doesn't have to be because they don't have a good idea, but because they don't even want to chance their robot falling from the 30 pt zone.

Our team is deciding to be safe rather than sorry, and only reach the 20pt zone.

Maybe we'll utilize the full spare parts limit after all...

[pfreivald]

I'd be curious to see a pneumatic solution. It seems to me that the air charge necessary -- even with mechanical assist -- is prohibitive. (That said, I'm a particle physicist by training, not a mechanical engineer, and every year I'm amazed at some (much) of the things I see in FIRST.)