Team Update 2013-01-11

[GaryVoshol]

G18-1: good.

Now I can tell you how I would have broken the game. Suppose I'm on Red. I have a bulldozer bot. I push Blue bots around at will. Including pushing Blue into a fellow Red bot while that bot is attempting to climb the pyramid. Quick 30 points for our side, and Blue gets a red card. If it was the elimination round, Red would automatically win.

What remains to be seen is which rule takes precedence, G18-1 or G30. G18-1 says you can't cause a foul; G30 says it's a foul regardless of who causes it.

[Johnbot]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

G18-1: good.

Now I can tell you how I would have broken the game. Suppose I'm on Red. I have a bulldozer bot. I push Blue bots around at will. Including pushing Blue into a fellow Red bot while that bot is attempting to climb the pyramid. Quick 30 points for our side, and Blue gets a red card. If it was the elimination round, Red would automatically win.

What remains to be seen is which rule takes precedence, G18-1 or G30. G18-1 says you can't cause a foul; G30 says it's a foul regardless of who causes it.

G18-1 says you can't build a strategy around causing a foul. Last year, you could ram teams into your bridge on your way to the bridge, and they would get a Technical Foul. However, if you purposefully pushed them from their key into your bridge repeatedly, you would be in trouble.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Johnbot

G18-1 says you can't build a strategy around causing a foul. Last year, you could ram teams into your bridge on your way to the bridge, and they would get a Technical Foul. However, if you purposefully pushed them from their key into your bridge repeatedly, you would be in trouble.

That was my point. Prior to G18-1 you could force the infraction. Now you can't anymore, and if the refs think that was what you were trying to do, you get the T.

[Johnbot]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

That was my point. Prior to G18-1 you could force the infraction. Now you can't anymore, and if the refs think that was what you were trying to do, you get the T.

You still can force it, you just can't do it in a way that you make a strategy around it.
Say you are heading towards your pyramid, and a defender blocks you. Once the defender realizes that you have more pushing power, he might try to back off. As he tries to retreat, and you push him into your pyramid, the infraction remains, as you were trying to get to your pyramid.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

G18-1: good.

Now I can tell you how I would have broken the game. Suppose I'm on Red. I have a bulldozer bot. I push Blue bots around at will. Including pushing Blue into a fellow Red bot while that bot is attempting to climb the pyramid. Quick 30 points for our side, and Blue gets a red card. If it was the elimination round, Red would automatically win.

What remains to be seen is which rule takes precedence, G18-1 or G30. G18-1 says you can't cause a foul; G30 says it's a foul regardless of who causes it.

I guess it all depends on how harshly they want to keep people away. It could be another "trump card" clause like 2011...ugh.

It seems to me to make the most sense to just let G18-1 be the end-all be-all. If you force them into a red-card situation, they a) don't get the redcard, b) you get a TECHNICAL FOUL, and c) you possibly disrupt your own alliance's climb. That seems to me to be enough disincentive to not risk trying to force an opposing redcard...

[Andrew Zeller]

Recently in the official Q&A, under R05, somebody asked this question:

Q. Does the 54" diameter cylinder include the bumpers or not. R05 ambiguous.
A. Yes, BUMPERS are considered part of the ROBOT for [G23]. This will be addressed in Team UPDATE - 2013-01-11.

Browsing over team update 2013-01-11, it does not appear that FIRST addresses G23.

This is a pretty important rule and I hope that FIRST can provide some clarification. Anyone have any ideas of what is going on regarding G23?

[Basel A]

I'm pretty surprised about the addition of rule G18-1. Not because I don't think it should be a rule, but rather because I always assumed that when the GDC begins to write the rules, they start with the game non-specific parts of previous years' rules. I don't know whether they simply forgot to include it or they decided it should be a rule in the week after Kickoff. My previous assumption implies the latter, but I don't know. [/irrelevantspeculation]

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by boarder3512

Recently in the official Q&A, under R05, somebody asked this question:

Q. Does the 54" diameter cylinder include the bumpers or not. R05 ambiguous.
A. Yes, BUMPERS are considered part of the ROBOT for [G23]. This will be addressed in Team UPDATE - 2013-01-11.

Browsing over team update 2013-01-11, it does not appear that FIRST addresses G23.

This is a pretty important rule and I hope that FIRST can provide some clarification. Anyone have any ideas of what is going on regarding G23?

R05 was updated in team update 2013-01-11 to be consistent with this Q/A response. Bumpers do count against you for the 54" rule

[Joe Ross]

For those who looked at the update earlier, look again. I don't remember seeing R05 and R78 updated when I first posted. I think they were added later

[EricH]

Originally Posted by boarder3512

Recently in the official Q&A, under R05, somebody asked this question:

Q. Does the 54" diameter cylinder include the bumpers or not. R05 ambiguous.
A. Yes, BUMPERS are considered part of the ROBOT for [G23]. This will be addressed in Team UPDATE - 2013-01-11.

Browsing over team update 2013-01-11, it does not appear that FIRST addresses G23.

This is a pretty important rule and I hope that FIRST can provide some clarification. Anyone have any ideas of what is going on regarding G23?

They did address it. They removed the "and volume" exemption for bumpers and battery (though the weight exemption remains).

[Andrew Zeller]

Originally Posted by EricH

They did address it. They removed the "and volume" exemption for bumpers and battery (though the weight exemption remains).

That makes sense now. I glossed over it initially. Overall this ruling will affect many teams.

[|DELTA|]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

G18-1: good.

Now I can tell you how I would have broken the game. Suppose I'm on Red. I have a bulldozer bot. I push Blue bots around at will. Including pushing Blue into a fellow Red bot while that bot is attempting to climb the pyramid. Quick 30 points for our side, and Blue gets a red card. If it was the elimination round, Red would automatically win.

What remains to be seen is which rule takes precedence, G18-1 or G30. G18-1 says you can't cause a foul; G30 says it's a foul regardless of who causes it.

hhhmm. yeah, that also seemed a tad ambiguous...

[Wayne Doenges]

What if you are touching your pyramid and shooting at the goal. Another robot positions itself in front of you to block you shots. Now you move forward and hit them while still touching your pyramid. Will they get a penaly or you?

[dtengineering]

There are some minor changes and outstanding questions by by and large, the GDC seems to have done an impressively good job writing the rules this year.

I think this is one of the most "stable" and comprehensive rule sets that I've seen.

Well done GDC!

J

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

What if you are touching your pyramid and shooting at the goal. Another robot positions itself in front of you to block you shots. Now you move forward and hit them while still touching your pyramid. Will they get a penaly or you?

Yes :-)