Team Update 2013-01-11

[Joe Ross]

http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/Updates/0#term%2034

They partially added back the force a foul rule.

[danopia]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

They partially added back the force a foul rule.

Well, darn.

That and not being able to use a ladder when removing your robot from the pyramid. Makes sense, though

[mdiradoorian]

Not much changed for the exception that teams no longer can get their robot off the pyramid with special equipment while on the field floor.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/Updates/0#term%2034

They partially added back the force a foul rule.

Good... I was surprised that wasn't there to start with, considering that it has been in most previous years and that it would be pretty easy to push a robot against your pyramid or loading zone. The really good thing is that they haven't also added an exception to this rule, and an exception to the exception...

[dellagd]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/Updates/0#term%2034

They partially added back the force a foul rule.

Sweet.

[SenorZ]

G18-1... thank goodness. I was discussing with another mentor how going to your own feed slots was a crap shot. You could possibly draw foul points all over.

[GaryVoshol]

G18-1: good.

Now I can tell you how I would have broken the game. Suppose I'm on Red. I have a bulldozer bot. I push Blue bots around at will. Including pushing Blue into a fellow Red bot while that bot is attempting to climb the pyramid. Quick 30 points for our side, and Blue gets a red card. If it was the elimination round, Red would automatically win.

What remains to be seen is which rule takes precedence, G18-1 or G30. G18-1 says you can't cause a foul; G30 says it's a foul regardless of who causes it.

[Johnbot]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

G18-1: good.

Now I can tell you how I would have broken the game. Suppose I'm on Red. I have a bulldozer bot. I push Blue bots around at will. Including pushing Blue into a fellow Red bot while that bot is attempting to climb the pyramid. Quick 30 points for our side, and Blue gets a red card. If it was the elimination round, Red would automatically win.

What remains to be seen is which rule takes precedence, G18-1 or G30. G18-1 says you can't cause a foul; G30 says it's a foul regardless of who causes it.

G18-1 says you can't build a strategy around causing a foul. Last year, you could ram teams into your bridge on your way to the bridge, and they would get a Technical Foul. However, if you purposefully pushed them from their key into your bridge repeatedly, you would be in trouble.

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

G18-1: good.

Now I can tell you how I would have broken the game. Suppose I'm on Red. I have a bulldozer bot. I push Blue bots around at will. Including pushing Blue into a fellow Red bot while that bot is attempting to climb the pyramid. Quick 30 points for our side, and Blue gets a red card. If it was the elimination round, Red would automatically win.

What remains to be seen is which rule takes precedence, G18-1 or G30. G18-1 says you can't cause a foul; G30 says it's a foul regardless of who causes it.

I guess it all depends on how harshly they want to keep people away. It could be another "trump card" clause like 2011...ugh.

It seems to me to make the most sense to just let G18-1 be the end-all be-all. If you force them into a red-card situation, they a) don't get the redcard, b) you get a TECHNICAL FOUL, and c) you possibly disrupt your own alliance's climb. That seems to me to be enough disincentive to not risk trying to force an opposing redcard...

[Andrew Zeller]

Recently in the official Q&A, under R05, somebody asked this question:

Q. Does the 54" diameter cylinder include the bumpers or not. R05 ambiguous.
A. Yes, BUMPERS are considered part of the ROBOT for [G23]. This will be addressed in Team UPDATE - 2013-01-11.

Browsing over team update 2013-01-11, it does not appear that FIRST addresses G23.

This is a pretty important rule and I hope that FIRST can provide some clarification. Anyone have any ideas of what is going on regarding G23?

[Basel A]

I'm pretty surprised about the addition of rule G18-1. Not because I don't think it should be a rule, but rather because I always assumed that when the GDC begins to write the rules, they start with the game non-specific parts of previous years' rules. I don't know whether they simply forgot to include it or they decided it should be a rule in the week after Kickoff. My previous assumption implies the latter, but I don't know. [/irrelevantspeculation]

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by boarder3512

Recently in the official Q&A, under R05, somebody asked this question:

Q. Does the 54" diameter cylinder include the bumpers or not. R05 ambiguous.
A. Yes, BUMPERS are considered part of the ROBOT for [G23]. This will be addressed in Team UPDATE - 2013-01-11.

Browsing over team update 2013-01-11, it does not appear that FIRST addresses G23.

This is a pretty important rule and I hope that FIRST can provide some clarification. Anyone have any ideas of what is going on regarding G23?

R05 was updated in team update 2013-01-11 to be consistent with this Q/A response. Bumpers do count against you for the 54" rule

[EricH]

Originally Posted by boarder3512

Recently in the official Q&A, under R05, somebody asked this question:

Q. Does the 54" diameter cylinder include the bumpers or not. R05 ambiguous.
A. Yes, BUMPERS are considered part of the ROBOT for [G23]. This will be addressed in Team UPDATE - 2013-01-11.

Browsing over team update 2013-01-11, it does not appear that FIRST addresses G23.

This is a pretty important rule and I hope that FIRST can provide some clarification. Anyone have any ideas of what is going on regarding G23?

They did address it. They removed the "and volume" exemption for bumpers and battery (though the weight exemption remains).

[Joe Ross]

For those who looked at the update earlier, look again. I don't remember seeing R05 and R78 updated when I first posted. I think they were added later

[Andrew Zeller]

Originally Posted by EricH

They did address it. They removed the "and volume" exemption for bumpers and battery (though the weight exemption remains).

That makes sense now. I glossed over it initially. Overall this ruling will affect many teams.