Go to Post You know, I have 2 big addictions in my life right now: ice cream, and FIRST. While the prior may not be great for my health, I think I'm doing just fine with FIRST. - Beth Sweet [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2013, 15:20
jamie_1930's Avatar
jamie_1930 jamie_1930 is offline
Registered User
FRC #2228 (Cougartech)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Rush-Henrietta
Posts: 371
jamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to behold
Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Hi I am trying to use a Victor 884 motor controller with a non first micro controller. I dont want to use a PWM driver.

Does anyone know any information about the PWM signal used to control the Victors?
Period, Voltage, Current ect...

Thanks
__________________
2010
Team 2228(FRC) - Drive Team Lead, Drive Coach, Mechanical Team
Team 3750(FTC) - Team Lead
2009
Team 2228(FRC) - Mechanical Team, Driver at RIT, and Hartford Regionals, and Drive coach at Ruckus
*Second Place at Ruckus
Team 3750(FTC) - Team Lead, and Drive coach at Clarkson Regional
*Second Place at Clarkson Regional
2008
Team 1930(FRC) - Worked on Mechanical, Electrical, and Programming.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2013, 15:47
miker4004 miker4004 is offline
Registered User
FRC #4004
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: MI
Posts: 2
miker4004 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

My understanding is this:
1ms - 2ms pulse width with 1.5ms being center(off) , the 1ms full rev and 2ms being full fwd.
refresh rate or period is 50hz. signal level is a ?. It seem that 5volts was the output but I know that we had issues with some RC type outputs being to weak to drive one.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2013, 16:04
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,827
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

There shouldn't be a problem using "something else" to control your motor controllers for testing or non-competition uses. But please check the rules if you're thinking of sticking it on the robot this year!
__________________
2007 - Present: Mentor, 2177 The Robettes
LRI: North Star 2012-2016; Lake Superior 2013-2014; MN State Tournament 2013-2014, 2016; Galileo 2016; Iowa 2017
2015: North Star Regional Volunteer of the Year
2016: Lake Superior WFFA
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2013, 17:10
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,104
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by miker4004 View Post
refresh rate or period is 50hz
this from apalrd:
Quote:
Originally Posted by apalrd View Post
The current PWM setup in WPIlib (at least in LabVIEW) is a PWM output with a 5s period and a 'period multiplier' of 1,2 or 4. It's enumerated, so 1x, 2x, and 4x correspond to 0,1,2 respectively (I don't think you can add more multipliers if you want).

The Jaguars use a period multiplier of 1, for a 5ms period. The Victors use 2, for a 10ms period. Servos use 4, for a 20ms period, and raw PWM channels can use whatever they want (of the three choices)

  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2013, 19:13
jamie_1930's Avatar
jamie_1930 jamie_1930 is offline
Registered User
FRC #2228 (Cougartech)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Rush-Henrietta
Posts: 371
jamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to behold
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

I'm using them for the 2013 Robomagellan Competition in San Mateo, CA not a FIRST event so FRC rules don't matter. Thanks for the help, but does anyone know what the minimum and maximum current is for the motor controller?
__________________
2010
Team 2228(FRC) - Drive Team Lead, Drive Coach, Mechanical Team
Team 3750(FTC) - Team Lead
2009
Team 2228(FRC) - Mechanical Team, Driver at RIT, and Hartford Regionals, and Drive coach at Ruckus
*Second Place at Ruckus
Team 3750(FTC) - Team Lead, and Drive coach at Clarkson Regional
*Second Place at Clarkson Regional
2008
Team 1930(FRC) - Worked on Mechanical, Electrical, and Programming.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2013, 19:21
McGurky's Avatar
McGurky McGurky is offline
Geek
AKA: Kyle McGurk
FRC #1716 (Redbird Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Houghton, MI
Posts: 291
McGurky is just really niceMcGurky is just really niceMcGurky is just really niceMcGurky is just really nice
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Maximum: 40 Amps Continuous, No minimum current.

More information can be found here (which to my understanding is the only place 884's are being sold!): http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/IFI-V884.html
__________________
RTFM -Read The First Manual

You already are who you are, I may be able to show you a fancy trick or two, but the term "Better" is relative to the potential you already have.
Take a look at my website/Blog!
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2013, 19:49
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,104
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGurky View Post
No minimum current.
Where did you get that info from ?


  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2013, 19:57
engunneer's Avatar
engunneer engunneer is offline
Alumni turned Mentor
AKA: Branden Gunn
FRC #4761
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Reading, MA
Posts: 873
engunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond reputeengunneer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Since you can turn them on and run them with no load, this implies no minimum current. Keep input voltage around 12. The pwm signal should be pretty low current. Any standard microcontroller output should provide enough.

Thanks for the 5 and 10ms info. I find that quite helpful.
__________________
Student FRC23 (1996-1999), Mentor FRC246 (2000), Mentor FRC1318 (2007-2009), Mentor FRC93 (2011), Mentor FRC2151 (2012), Mentor FRC23 (2013), Mentor FRC4761 (2014-2017)
1998 - National Chairman's Award and Woodie Flowers Award (FRC23, Mike Bastoni ) | 2007 - PNW SF (488, 1595) | 2008 - Oregon RCA - Seattle #2 Seed, SF (488, 1696) | 2009 - Oregon #1 Seed, Winners (1983, 2635) - Seattle SF (945, 2865) - Galileo #2 Seed, SF (973, 25) | 2012 Midwest F (111, 71) | 2014 RIDE Winners (78, 125), Inspector - NEU #24, QF (3479, 3958) - NECMP #35 | 2015 Reading #11, SF (1058, 190), Inspector - RIDE #17, QF(4055, 5494), Inspector - NECMP #57 | 2016 Reading #4, SF (133, 4474), DCA, Inspector - Ride #22, SF (1735, 2067), Creativity, Inspector - NECMP #48, RCA - Archimedes
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2013, 20:00
jamie_1930's Avatar
jamie_1930 jamie_1930 is offline
Registered User
FRC #2228 (Cougartech)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Rush-Henrietta
Posts: 371
jamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to beholdjamie_1930 is a splendid one to behold
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGurky View Post
Maximum: 40 Amps Continuous, No minimum current.

More information can be found here (which to my understanding is the only place 884's are being sold!): http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/IFI-V884.html
When I say max and minimum current I mean for the controlling signal going in to the Victor (the pwm).
__________________
2010
Team 2228(FRC) - Drive Team Lead, Drive Coach, Mechanical Team
Team 3750(FTC) - Team Lead
2009
Team 2228(FRC) - Mechanical Team, Driver at RIT, and Hartford Regionals, and Drive coach at Ruckus
*Second Place at Ruckus
Team 3750(FTC) - Team Lead, and Drive coach at Clarkson Regional
*Second Place at Clarkson Regional
2008
Team 1930(FRC) - Worked on Mechanical, Electrical, and Programming.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2013, 20:02
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,104
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by engunneer View Post
Since you can turn them on and run them with no load, this implies no minimum current.
Ever look at a graph of output current vs input command for an 884 ?


  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-01-2013, 20:04
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,104
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_1930 View Post
When I say max and minimum current I mean for the controlling signal going in to the Victor (the pwm).
Yes, there is a minimum current required to operate the opto-isolator in the Vic's input. Don't know off-hand what it is.

There's also a max current above which the opto-isolator can be damaged.


  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-01-2013, 14:52
electroken's Avatar
electroken electroken is offline
Electron Tamer
AKA: Ken Pontbriant
FRC #0230 (Gaelhawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Shelton, CT
Posts: 178
electroken is a jewel in the roughelectroken is a jewel in the roughelectroken is a jewel in the rough
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Our test box is using a Microchip PIC12F675 to generate a PWM signal for the motor controller. The box drives Victor 883s, Victor 884s, and Talons well. Our black Jaguars pretend it doesn't exist. The timing we use is 1mS on equals full reverse, 1.5mS on equals neutral, 2mS on equals full forward, with a rep rate of 244 Hz. We have a 270 ohm resistor in series with the PIC output pin to allow it to survive inadvertent shorts to ground.

The Talon manual states an input frequency of 333 Hz, but it seems quite satisfied with 244 Hz, and allowed me to be lazy with the code in the PIC.
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-01-2013, 15:11
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,798
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by electroken View Post
Our test box is using a Microchip PIC12F675 to generate a PWM signal for the motor controller. The box drives Victor 883s, Victor 884s, and Talons well. Our black Jaguars pretend it doesn't exist.
The Jaguars use a slightly different PWM scheme than the standard hobby servo. You have to modify the PWM for the Jaguars to react.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-01-2013, 15:12
Ether's Avatar
Ether Ether is offline
systems engineer (retired)
no team
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 1969
Location: US
Posts: 8,104
Ether has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond reputeEther has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by electroken View Post
Our black Jaguars pretend it doesn't exist. ... We have a 270 ohm resistor in series with the PIC output pin to allow it to survive inadvertent shorts to ground.
How much current can that PIC source thru that 270 ohm resistor?

There's a minimum threshold current required to trip the detection circuitry in the motor controller.

Quote:
The Talon manual states an input frequency of 333 Hz, but it seems quite satisfied with 244 Hz
I believe all three motor controllers will accept periods from 5 ms up to 20 ms. Some will accept periods outside that range. The period does not affect the motor controller's interpretation of the input PWM signal. It is reading the pulse width, not the duty cycle.

Your period of 4 ms (244Hz) is overkill. The fastest period used in the WPILib drivers is 5 ms.



  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-01-2013, 15:21
electroken's Avatar
electroken electroken is offline
Electron Tamer
AKA: Ken Pontbriant
FRC #0230 (Gaelhawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Shelton, CT
Posts: 178
electroken is a jewel in the roughelectroken is a jewel in the roughelectroken is a jewel in the rough
Re: Using an Non First Microcontroller with Victor 884 Motor Controller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ether View Post
How much current can that PIC source thru that 270 ohm resistor?

There's a minimum threshold current required to trip the detection circuitry in the motor controller.
The PIC output is sourcing 10mA to the one Victor 883 I measured. That's a reasonable input current for the optoisolators I'm used to. I'm pretty sure (but not certain) that the 883, 884, and Talon have optoisolators at the PWM input.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:57.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi